The Pope

[BobRyan]

What does "BORN AGAIN" mean to all of you? I keep on hearing that but I dont know what people's definition of that really is on here.

Claudia

It is the "New heart" promised in the NEW covenant as seen in Heb 8 and 10.

It is the "Law written on the heart" as the New covenant says.

It is the "New Creation" of 2Cor 5.

It is the spirit nature made in the image of Christ that wars against the sinful nature - as seen in Romans 7.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Eliyahu]

Accusation of Tragic_Pizza:

Where did Tragic_Pizza advocate paganism? This is just a bogus accusation because Tragic_Pizza
1) will not indulge in the nastiness you are engaging in, and
2) points out the falsity of your accusations?
I do not see how disagreeing with someone must make me spitefully fabricate accusations against them. I believe Tragic_Pizza views the matter similarly.

Christians have an obligation to oppose sin. One sin is false accusation, which you are engaged in against Catholics. Tragic_Pizza is doing the duty of every Christian. :applause:

You don't reralize what is paganism and therefore you advocate the paganist again.
He said I am silly. That word was used by him first. I returned his saying to him.
Why do you claim that I accuse him by falsity?
What is the proof there? It is 100 % right that BB do not allow RC's. If so, millions of Paganists argue and bite the others endlessly. As there was Roman Catholic, there was all the time Genocide, Massacres as we remember the Inquistion, Devout Roman Catholic Adolf Hitler, Rwandan Genocide, Crusade etc.

Are these false accusations ?

Tell me which one is correct?

Is Roman Catholic built upon Peter and the human tradition?

or

Is Roman Catholic built upon Jesus Christ?

Which one is correct?

 

[Eliyahu]

Accusation of Tragic_Pizza:

Where did Tragic_Pizza advocate paganism? This is just a bogus accusation because Tragic_Pizza
1) will not indulge in the nastiness you are engaging in, and

Is the truth that I mentioned is nasty to you? Please explain to me why it is nasty to you.

Please explain how is your belief on the following issue, in a fragrant way!


Do you know "Mother of God" contradicts Trinity because,
You may call Mary as Mother of God the Son and believe God the Father is God, then you deny Mary is Mother of God the Father.
If God the Father is God, then why Mary cannot be Mother of God the Father while you claim Mary is Mother of God?
By calling so, you are denying God the Father is God! Therefore you are not the Believer of God the Father. This is why God the Father hates the people who call Mary as Mother of God!
The Word "God" appears in the Bible over 3,600 times. Among them only less than 10 times it indicates Jesus Christ, God the Son. In other words, Mother of God mostly means Mother of God the Father.
Noboy in the Bible called Mary as Mother of God!


Claiming that God has a Mother is a paganism which comes from goddess worship. Do you know this?

 

[Darron Steele]

Is the truth that I mentioned is nasty to you? Please explain to me why it is nasty to you.

Please explain how is your belief on the following issue, in a fragrant way!


Do you know "Mother of God" contradicts Trinity because,
You may call Mary as Mother of God the Son and believe God the Father is God, then you deny Mary is Mother of God the Father.
If God the Father is God, then why Mary cannot be Mother of God the Father while you claim Mary is Mother of God?
By calling so, you are denying God the Father is God! Therefore you are not the Believer of God the Father. This is why God the Father hates the people who call Mary as Mother of God!
The Word "God" appears in the Bible over 3,600 times. Among them only less than 10 times it indicates Jesus Christ, God the Son. In other words, Mother of God mostly means Mother of God the Father.
Noboy in the Bible called Mary as Mother of God!


Claiming that God has a Mother is a paganism which comes from goddess worship. Do you know this?

I have read and understood a number of Catholic apologetics sources and catechisms, and rationales for various beliefs and practices at the present time. You did not even understand my post. My post was that you are accusing Roman Catholics falsely and in a nasty spirit. You had not addressed me personally at all, although I knew it was coming.

"Mary Mother of God" does not come from Scripture. In fact, I do not accept that because it defies common sense. The "Mary Mother of God" stuff is based upon the fact that Jesus Christ is Mother of God the Son, but of course Mary cannot be "Mother of God" because as a whole, God existed before her.

Roman Catholicism does not claim that Mary is mother of the Father.

I am not interested in debating the merits of Roman Catholicism. The fact that I am not Catholic nor considering it ought to say enough. However, when it is claimed that Roman Catholics do or believe something that in reality they do not, I think someone ought to speak up.

"Therefore you are not the Believer of God the Father."

You are beside yourself with hatred. Jesus Christ indicated that there was a God the Father. I also read the Father's Word, and believe it -- ALL of it, including Luke 3:14 "neither accuse any falsely" (KJV).

This is why God the Father hates the people who call Mary as Mother of God!

Wow! You scourge Catholicism for accepting extra-biblical beliefs, and yet you adopt one yourself! The Bible nowhere says that God hates or would hate anyone for their beliefs about Mary.

 

[Claudia_T]

I have read and understood a number of Catholic apologetics sources and catechisms, and rationales for various beliefs and practices at the present time. You did not even understand my post. My post was that you are accusing Roman Catholics falsely and in a nasty spirit. You had not addressed me personally at all, although I knew it was coming.

"Mary Mother of God" does not come from Scripture. In fact, I do not accept that because it defies common sense. The "Mary Mother of God" stuff is based upon the fact that Jesus Christ is Mother of God the Son, but of course Mary cannot be "Mother of God" because as a whole, God existed before her.

Roman Catholicism does not claim that Mary is mother of the Father.

I am not interested in debating the merits of Roman Catholicism. The fact that I am not Catholic nor considering it ought to say enough. However, when it is claimed that Roman Catholics do or believe something that in reality they do not, I think someone ought to speak up.


You are beside yourself with hatred. Jesus Christ indicated that there was a God the Father. I also read the Father's Word, and believe it -- ALL of it, including Luke 3:14 "neither accuse any falsely" (KJV).


Wow! You scourge Catholicism for accepting extra-biblical beliefs, and yet you adopt one yourself! The Bible nowhere says that God hates or would hate anyone for their beliefs about Mary.

Isnt it hitting a little (or alot) below the belt to accuse this man of "Hatred" just because he is pointing out where he thinks that the Roman Catholic Church has false teachings?

After all, this IS a debate forum concerning other denominations... Do you feel the Roman Catholic Church is somehow exempt from investigation?

I dont think that it is very good tactics at all. Well I suppose there would be SOME here that would fall for that old "hatred" line, maybe, perhaps...

Have you yourself NEVER told where you believe other churches to be wrong in their beliefs? And if so, were YOU spewing HATRED? This would be a pretty silent forum if everyone refrained from telling what they believe to be wrong about other people's beliefs.



Claudia

 

[Darron Steele]

Isnt it hitting a little (or alot) below the belt to accuse this man of "Hatred" just because he is pointing out where he thinks that the Roman Catholic Church has false teachings?

After all, this IS a debate forum concerning other denominations... Do you feel the Roman Catholic Church is somehow exempt from investigation?

I dont think that it is very good tactics at all. Well I suppose there would be SOME here that would fall for that old "hatred" line, maybe, perhaps...

Have you yourself NEVER told where you believe other churches to be wrong in their beliefs? And if so, were YOU spewing HATRED? This would be a pretty silent forum if everyone refrained from telling what they believe to be wrong about other people's beliefs.



Claudia

I have no objection, Claudia, with REASONABLE debate. However, the man is just spewing forth things about Roman Catholics that are not even true. When Tragic_Pizza pointed out the inaccuracies of what was claimed, the man immediately accused Tragic_Pizza of being an advocate of it.

Heck -- he just accused me of not believing something that I do believe. His hatred of Roman Catholicism is blinding him of his reasoning. He just tosses accusations with no regard for their accuracy, and when those accusations are shown false, heaps some on the person pointing it out.

I have no serious problem debating the merits or demerits of a religious system IF what is being discussed is the REAL beliefs and practices at present.

Tactics? It was not a debating tactic. I am not interested in debating the merits of Roman Catholicism on this thread. A Catholic church is one of the last places I would make my church home. The Catholic system has too many real problems. I would just like to see people stop saying things that are not true.

Is that too much to ask of Christians? I do not believe so.

 

[Claudia_T]

I have no objection, Claudia, with REASONABLE debate. However, the man is just spewing forth things about Roman Catholics that are not even true. When Tragic_Pizza pointed out the inaccuracies of what was claimed, the man immediately accused Tragic_Pizza of being an advocate of it.

Heck -- he just accused me of not believing something that I do believe. His hatred of Roman Catholicism is blinding him of his reasoning. He just tosses accusations with no regard for their accuracy, and when those accusations are shown false, heaps some on the person pointing it out.

I have no serious problem debating the merits or demerits of a religious system IF what is being discussed is the REAL beliefs and practices at present.

Tactics? It was not a debating tactic. I am not interested in debating the merits of Roman Catholicism on this thread. A Catholic church is one of the last places I would make my church home. The Catholic system has too many real problems. I would just like to see people stop saying things that are not true.

Is that too much to ask of Christians? I do not believe so.

well I can understand then, people are always saying things that are not true about my own church so I can sympathize.

It does get pretty frustrating after awhile.


Claudia

 

[Darron Steele]

I glad we now have understanding of each other. :thumbs:

 

[Eliyahu]

I have read and understood a number of Catholic apologetics sources and catechisms, and rationales for various beliefs and practices at the present time. You did not even understand my post. My post was that you are accusing Roman Catholics falsely and in a nasty spirit. You had not addressed me personally at all, although I knew it was coming.

You could never explained or pointed out what was false in my post at all.
Still you are accusing me in a nasty spirit! ( I would return you all the nasty words that you spoke first. I don't do it first but notice ther false believers often swear, which reveals what they are)

"Mary Mother of God" does not come from Scripture. In fact, I do not accept that because it defies common sense. The "Mary Mother of God" stuff is based upon the fact that Jesus Christ is Mother of God the Son, but of course Mary cannot be "Mother of God" because as a whole, God existed before her.

I would accept the above as a kind of spelling mistake.
But your next paragraph reveals what you truly insist on.

Roman Catholicism does not claim that Mary is mother of the Father.

I am not interested in debating the merits of Roman Catholicism. The fact that I am not Catholic nor considering it ought to say enough. However, when it is claimed that Roman Catholics do or believe something that in reality they do not, I think someone ought to speak up.

I never said RC claims Mary is the Mother of God the Father. That's why I say their Theotokos contradicts Tri-Unity or Trinity.

You are beside yourself with hatred.

You are beside yourself with hatred. That's why you mis-spelled that Jesus is Mother of God the Father. Where is your proof that I am beside myself with hatred? Show me any sentence supporting it.

Jesus Christ indicated that there was a God the Father.

Oh, a big discovery by you!

I also read the Father's Word, and believe it -- ALL of it, including Luke 3:14 "neither accuse any falsely" (KJV).

That is what Roman Catholic did throughout the history, thru Inquisition, etc. Catholic priests raped the women by accusing them with the false accusations of witch hunting. Today they rape and assult women and altar boys. That's why some dioceses went bankrupt these days.

Wow! You scourge Catholicism for accepting extra-biblical beliefs, and yet you adopt one yourself! The Bible nowhere says that God hates or would hate anyone for their beliefs about Mary.

This reveals your inner heart in support of Roman Catholicism, in contradiction to what you said above.

There are many words suppoprting this. Have you ever read thru the Bible wholeheartedly?
Read this: ( All Bible quotes are from Crosswalk.com)

Deutronomy 16:21-22

21 Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the LORD thy God, which thou shalt make thee. ( grove is the translation from Ashera, which was the goddess worshipped by Canaanites, which RC modernized and decorated as Mary today)

22 Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the LORD thy God hateth. ( This is what Roman Cathoklic does and excuses for with all the paradoxes) : God hates the Idol worshippers, especially the people who worship the idol of goddess, which was called Ashera and then was laundered and decorated as Mary.


Mother means that she existed before her son, and no one can pre-exist before his or her mother. No one can exist without his or her mother. Cannot God exist without having his mother ?

If Mary is Mother of God, it sounds that she existed before God, and that God was produced by Mary. This is why nobody in the Bible calls Mary as Mother of God. If any woman gave birth to God, then she is goddes, de facto.
Let's see the Bible.
Isaiah 43:10
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

There was no one before God! There was no Mother before God! ( Can you believe this?)

Calling Mary as Mother of God, and then praying to her who is dead now, angers God because it is actuallyb worshipping goddess, like this:

Jeremiah 44:

19 And when we( Israelites) burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men

We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her:

29
saith the LORD, that I will punish you( goddess worshippers) in this place, that ye may know that my words shall surely stand against you for evil:

Don't you know that Roman Catholic calls Mary as Queen of Heaven, because she gave birth to a god?

Do you think God is happy with calling Mary as Mother of God? Why don't you join Roman Catholic if you believe that Papacy is correct, or Mother of God is right? Why don't you behave as you believe?

Your blindness and ignorance reach up to the heaven.

 

[Darron Steele]

You are right that I mis-typed.

However, you are wrong that I believe the papacy is right. I believe that the post you quoted was clear about my real beliefs on Roman Catholicism.

I will be back later. I have a friend to go visit.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Darren, thanks for having my back.

Eliyahu, you really have no idea how God feels. Come on, admit it.

 

[Darron Steele]

Okay.

I am back. Glad this thread has been quiet. First of all, the Jeremiah 44 passage refers to an idolatrous deity in the Near East during Old Testament times. Mary was not even born yet. The passage cannot refer to what Roman Catholics to for Mary just because of the time period.

Second, the Jeremiah 44 passage refers to full worship of that idolatrous deity. Catholics do not worship Mary. Tragic_Pizza has already tried to tell you that. They ask Mary to supplicate to Jesus Christ or the Father for them. While still wrong, this is not worship.

Relics. Again, still wrong. However, Catholics are not worshiping them. They are treated as a reminder. Kneeling before a statue of Mary reminds them of Mary, whom they are praying to for intercession before God. Wrong, but still not worship.

I believe you have been told all this before by Tragic_Pizza. You did not listen, and instead accused him of advocating paganism. You have done me the same way.

Mary was placed in her position among Roman Catholics likely because Jesus Christ came to be viewed as unapproachable. Mary was turned into the compassionate one. I have read a modern prayer of a Catholic practitioner to Mary to intercede for mercy from Christ. It was a very sad prayer to read -- the person was in utter dread of Christ. This is wrong, I know that, but it is the reality.

Catholics do not worship the bishop of Rome either. They listen to him for what they mistakenly believe is God's instructions on how to serve God.

I have never liked being spoken falsehoods of. Therefore, I do not like to see it done to others. I like to be represented truthfully by people who disagree with me. Luke 6:31 says “Treat others exactly as you would have them treat you” (NBV). Wanting to see people characterized accurately is not the same as agreeing with them.

 

[Darron Steele]

Darren, thanks for having my back.

Eliyahu, you really have no idea how God feels. Come on, admit it.

You are welcome. You have been doing this alone for too long.

The reality is that his perspective on God hating anyone at present is extrabiblical -- just like many distinctively Catholic beliefs.

 

[Claudia_T]

Mary was placed in her position among Roman Catholics likely because Jesus Christ came to be viewed as unapproachable. Mary was turned into the compassionate one. I have read a modern prayer of a Catholic practitioner to Mary to intercede for mercy from Christ. It was a very sad prayer to read -- the person was in utter dread of Christ. This is wrong, I know that, but it is the reality.

well actually, the way that most Protestants today act like the Ten Commandments are some legalistic thing God made up and then that Jesus "the nice One" came and died so God could "do away with that Old Terrible Law" is not much different than Catholics acting like Jesus is One to dread and that you have to approach God through Mary "the compassionate one".

The only difference is the Protestants malign God by doing the same thing.

Jesus however said "When you have seen Me you have seen the Father". And He gave an even MORE detailed view of His Father's Ten Commandments by telling us that we have heard Thou shalt not kill but Im telling you dont even be angry against your Brother. And Thou shalt not commit adultery, but Im telling you dont even lust after a woman.

Of course most Protestants take that and somehow twist it around to mean that Jesus was just saying that to prove we cant keep His Father's Law. They are BENT on making God look bad, and Jesus to seem like the only "Approachable One".

So really they arent much better than the Catholics in that regard. I cant see how God would regard the two as one much better than the other.

Claudia

 

[Eliyahu]

Darren, thanks for having my back.

Eliyahu, you really have no idea how God feels. Come on, admit it.

YOu could read many of my posts. The points are very clear, I don't accept Catholic or Pro-Catholic ideas and teachings even though I have no reason to hate any people of RC or Pro-Catholics
[ad hominem deleted]

 

[tragic_pizza]

I might remind you that it is a violation of BB policy to question the salvation of another poster.

You claim to know that God hates Catholics. In this, you are as errant as those in the Westboro Baptist Church.

 

[johnk48]

If the Popes are infallable when they speak in their official capacity, then why have Popes disagreed in the past?

 

[BobRyan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stan the man
I want to look at one of the most misunderstood and often attacked aspects of the Catholic Church: the Pope.

There are many misconceptions that people have. Some people sometimes think that the teaching of the Church is that the Pope is infallible; therefore, he can't sin. That's nonsense, .

True - that is nonsense.

What they really think is that the idea of a "infallible Pope" is something the RCC made up in the 20th century. NO POPE ever said "I am now speaking infallibly and excathedra" yet the RCC MAKES UP the notion that when these (often wicked popes in the dark ages) Popes speak excathedra they speak infallibly.

The obvious problem is that many of the dark ages popes DID speak on doctrinal matters and even the good ones - did not preface with "by contrast to the line of wicked popes that preceed me -- I am a good pope and I now make an excathedra statement".

(BTW - when I speak of "wicked popes" I mean that from an RC POV - as THEY have published the topic - not from a protestant one)

 

[Darron Steele]

If the Popes are infallable when they speak in their official capacity, then why have Popes disagreed in the past?

A very legitimate question. I read somewhere where one pope dug up, tried, and convicted a previous pope for heresy.

"Heresy" in Catholic lingo means an error of religion. Obviously, one or both were wrong in at least one aspect of their religious teaching.

 

[Eliyahu]

I might remind you that it is a violation of BB policy to question the salvation of another poster.

You claim to know that God hates Catholics. In this, you are as errant as those in the Westboro Baptist Church.

It is you that started to say the idea of other person is silly.
I can say your belief in support of RC is silly as the word likes to return to the source. You don't read the previous post of mine properly. I distinguish between Catholicism and Catholics. I don't say God hates Catholic people but if they insist and continue to stay in Catholicism such as Idol Worship, Prayer to the dead, Prayer for the dead, Papacy calling human beings holy father, goddess worship by excusing with all the paradoxes, even though they may succeed in cheating the people, they will be speechless at the Judgement Seat, and will go to the Lake of Fire.
If any one inisist on Idol worship and goddess worship, they will go to the Hell. Do you disagree with this?

You may excuse that worshipping Mary is not the goddess worship or even you may say you don't worship mary, that's is another issue. Let's define one thing first. If anyone worship idols, she or he will go to the hell, right? Saying about this is prohibited ?
Now whether or not Adoration or Veneration of Mary falls under Idolatry can be the next controversy. So, your claim that I am against BB policy is groundless, but only whether Catholicism is such paganism or not is the issue to discuss.