The Pope

[tragic_pizza]

As long as the doctrine is correct, I can!

Who determines if the doctrine is correct? You? And how do you know?

Marcion, Origen, and Arius all thought their doctrine was correct. How do you know yours is?

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Because I believe the Bible. It is my final authority.

In our Baptist church, we do not do things considered 'vain repetitions', we do things because it is scriptural to do them.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Scriptural according to whom?

Your personal interpretation, or what you've been told in church?

If personal, why do you appear to have two eyes? How is it you appear to have both hands to type with? How can you afford a computer with all your worldly possessions having been given over to the apostles?

If the church, how are you sure these things are what you understand them to be?

 

[DHK]

Can you grow spiritually if you remain in the Baptist church and follow its vain traditions?

What do you consider the vain traditions of the Baptist church (no such thing)?
Every Baptist church is autonomous, therefore all Baptist churches are independent one from another. There is no "Baptist church," as such. It is not a demonination strictly speaking, but only referred to in such a way for convenience sake. What you may find as "tradition" in one Baptist church may not be "tradition" in another Baptist church.

 

[tragic_pizza]

That aside, DHK, traditions exist which makes one a Baptist.

It wouldn;t make a ton of sense, for example, to sprinkle in a Baptist Church... unless, of course, it's a baby and you're
passing it off as a "christening."

:laugh:

 

[DHK]

That aside, DHK, traditions exist which makes one a Baptist.

It wouldn;t make a ton of sense, for example, to sprinkle in a Baptist Church... unless, of course, it's a baby and you're
passing it off as a "christening."

:laugh:

There are Biblical Baptist distinctives which make one a Baptist, one of which is baptism by immersion. That is not a tradition. It is part of the command given in the Great Commission, hardly a tradition.
I asked you to give us some examples of vain traditions which Baptists hold to.

 

[tragic_pizza]

... exept that it is a tradition, in the same way that every other baptismal ritual is a tradition.

John the Baptist didn't have waders, nor did he have a heated pool wherein to baptize. Jesus didn't specify a time in the service to do baptisms. Jesus didn't specify a particular mode of dress for baptisms, and the church didn't vote on whether or not this or that person could be members.

 

[DHK]

... exept that it is a tradition, in the same way that every other baptismal ritual is a tradition.

John the Baptist didn't have waders, nor did he have a heated pool wherein to baptize. Jesus didn't specify a time in the service to do baptisms. Jesus didn't specify a particular mode of dress for baptisms, and the church didn't vote on whether or not this or that person could be members.

We don't have waders.
We don't have a heated pool.
We don't have a specific time in the service (could be before or after; evening or mornng; or separate all together in a creek down by the way.)
Jesus obviously did specify some kind of time. He wouldn't get up in the middle of the sermon of the mount to baptize someone. He is a God of order. He didn't interupt His Great High Priestly Prayer just to baptize someone. In fact, to be perfectly accurately, Jesus never baptized anyone at all. His disciples baptized.

All of those are not vain traditions even if they are true.
They are part and parcel of carrying out the Great Commission (Mat.28:19,20.
But you speak from your limited scope of experience, and not from what other Baptist churches do. As I told you, there is no Baptist denomninaton. We are independent churches.

 

[tragic_pizza]

So who gets to decide what traditions are "vain" and which are not?

Don't say "the Bible," because every denomination, inluding Catholicism, can so justify their traditions.

 

[DHK]

So who gets to decide what traditions are "vain" and which are not?

Don't say "the Bible," because every denomination, inluding Catholicism, can so justify their traditions.

I will say the Bible. That is one of the distinctives that separate Baptists from others. The Bible is our final authority in all matters of faith and doctrine. It is not so with the Catholcs. The Catholics cannot support their doctrine or their tradtions especially traditions) from the Bible.
Doctrines such as purgatory, indulgences, Mariolatry, praying to the dead, transubstantiation, etc. all cannot be supported by the Bible.
The Bible, indeed, gets to decide what "traditions" are "vain" and which are not.

 

[Darron Steele]

So who gets to decide what traditions are "vain" and which are not?

Don't say "the Bible," because every denomination, inluding Catholicism, can so justify their traditions.

I will say the Bible. That is one of the distinctives that separate Baptists from others. The Bible is our final authority in all matters of faith and doctrine. It is not so with the Catholcs. The Catholics cannot support their doctrine or their tradtions especially traditions) from the Bible.
Doctrines such as purgatory, indulgences, Mariolatry, praying to the dead, transubstantiation, etc. all cannot be supported by the Bible.
The Bible, indeed, gets to decide what "traditions" are "vain" and which are not.

Catholicism does not draw all of its distinctives from Scripture. While transubstantiation is based upon a flawed understanding of some Scriptural passages, things such as purgatory, worship-like veneration of Mary and other dead people, withholding part of the Lord's Supper from most Christians, and similar cannot be drawn from Scripture.

Catholic apologetics books commonly attack the `sole authority of Scripture' very close to the beginning. Why? Because many Catholic distinctives cannot be drawn from Scripture. A passage in the footer of my posts ought to indicate the credibility of those.

To be sure, Catholic Christians share many doctrines with the rest of the Lord's church. These doctrines include that Jesus Christ is Lord and His teachings should be followed, and to be honest, gracious, and kind for the Lord in our daily lives. These doctrines are drawn from Scripture.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Also, DHK just because you say something is not supported by Scripture doesn't make it so.

The Catholic Christian accepts the deuterocanonical books as authoritative in the same way you and I consider the 66 Old and New Testament books to be authoritative. Thus the doctrine of Purgatory is, to them, Scripturally based.

I'd also caution you against asserting that only Baptists get their traditions from Scripture. There are many other denominations which say the same thing, including my own.

 

[Eliyahu]

The Catholic Christian accepts the deuterocanonical books as authoritative in the same way you and I consider the 66 Old and New Testament books to be authoritative. Thus the doctrine of Purgatory is, to them, Scripturally based.

Do you know what is the criteria for choosing the Apocrypha among many Apocrypha?

Why is 2 Esdras omitted in Catholic Bible? Is it because it condemns vehemently Idol Worship and worshipping other gods?

There are clear criteria why Protestant Bible exclude Apocrypha; the authors do not claim that they received the Words from God, Jesus did not quote them, they were not written in then current language of God's people ( Hebrew), their style is different from other Bible books and looks like fables or history book, they teach misconducts like assassination, they are contradictory to the whole Bible teachings, i.e. prayer to dead, prayer for the dead, etc.

It is like a drowing man trying to catch at a straw that Catholic insist on Apocrypha to justify the prayer to the dead. Read Isaiah 8:19.
How many times does Bible teach you that the dead people are sleeping.

Could Mary accept the prayers from all over the world while she was alive?
After the death, did the capacity of Mary explode so that she may accept the prayers from 1.3 billion people?

How much tragic will any man be if he believe that he would go to the Purgatory instead of going to Heaven just because of what Jesus Christ has done for all the people at the Cross?

Why do the people try to invent a strange religion saying that the people should go to the Purgatory except a few saints canonized by Pope, while Bible tells us that even the Robber at the Cross went to Paradise directly?

If Pope can send the people to the Heaven directly by canonizing them as saints, why doesn't he canonize all Catholics as Saints so that they may go to Heaven directly without spending millions of years in Purgatory?

Over a billions of people are going to Purgatory?
Can they get out of the Purgatory when their relatives and descendants pray for them and do enough almsgiving? Can their good works satisfy God? What does Romans say about that?

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God


Their own prayer and good deeds couldn't deliever anyone from the judgment of God.
Now Catholics are depenging on the good works of their descendants or relatives after death. Will their prayers and almsgiving will be enough to move God so that God may deliver them from the Purgatory?
How miserable they are in the Purgatory!

Is the Purgatory like Inferno or Pizza Oven?

How much Miserable are all the Catholics believing in Purgatory ?

Catholics must be like pizzas in the hot oven waiting for the release for indefinite time, relying on the prayers and almsgiving of their relatives which can never satisfy God, because Nothing but the Blood of Jesus can satisfy God.

I go to Heaven directly just because of what Jesus has done, not because I am righteous or have done good works or much almsgiving.
Jesus Christ has paid all the price for my sins, Once for ALL, so I go to Heaven freely by HIs Grace! without going to Purgatory! Thank God because of my Lord Jesus Christ! who shed the precious Blood and died the terrible death at the Cross!
Oh, what a miserable Catholics are without knowing this truth! Oh, Catholics, Tragic Pizzas in the Hot Oven ! Crying Crying in the Inferno! We born again Protestant Christians are in the Paradise!

 

[tragic_pizza]

Making fun of my username doesn't bolster your argument.

I'm not the one you should be discussing Purgatory with, since I am not Catholic, nor do I ascribe to the Deoterocanonical books.

When you can string a coherent sentence together without making fun of my username or deciding I am not a good Christian because I disagree with you, we'll talk.

 

[DHK]

Also, DHK just because you say something is not supported by Scripture doesn't make it so.

The Catholic Christian accepts the deuterocanonical books as authoritative in the same way you and I consider the 66 Old and New Testament books to be authoritative. Thus the doctrine of Purgatory is, to them, Scripturally based.

I'd also caution you against asserting that only Baptists get their traditions from Scripture. There are many other denominations which say the same thing, including my own.

What I believe I can back up by Scripture.
What other denominatons believe, I believe to be wrong (at least in some points), and am willing to demonstrate by the Scriptures why it is wrong. If I didn't believe it was wrong then I would be a member of that denomination, wouldn't I?

 

[tragic_pizza]

That's not the point I was making, DHK.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

I will say the Bible. That is one of the distinctives that separate Baptists from others. The Bible is our final authority in all matters of faith and doctrine. It is not so with the Catholcs. The Catholics cannot support their doctrine or their tradtions especially traditions) from the Bible.
Doctrines such as purgatory, indulgences, Mariolatry, praying to the dead, transubstantiation, etc. all cannot be supported by the Bible.
The Bible, indeed, gets to decide what "traditions" are "vain" and which are not.

Sorry DHK. It does not separate the Baptists from all the others. Are you saying that you are the only ones who have it right? Unbelievable.

I too will say that the Bible is our final authority. The Shorter Catechism says it this way: "Q. 2. What rule hath God given to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him? A. The word of God, which is contained in the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, is the only rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him."

But then again, Bob will tell you that the Adventists' final authority is the Bible. The same with the Methodists, the Lutherans, etc., etc.

And all denominations have traditions - some supported by Scripture, some not.

 

[Eliyahu]

Making fun of my username doesn't bolster your argument.

I'm not the one you should be discussing Purgatory with, since I am not Catholic, nor do I ascribe to the Deoterocanonical books.

When you can string a coherent sentence together without making fun of my username or deciding I am not a good Christian because I disagree with you, we'll talk.

Unfortunately, the whole situation of Catholics is exactly the same as your user name here. The Catholics who are going to spend millions of years ( or billions of years because we are sure that no human prayer or effort can satisfy God or appease the wrath of God or purify the mentality of human being) in the hot Inferno are very similar to the Pizzas in the hot oven. Catholics are really tragic Pizzas in the hot oven! O miserable Catholics!
They strongly believe and insist that they should go to Purgatory! to the hot oven!
We, born-again Christians, don't go to Purgatory, but to the Heaven via Paradise and will live in the Kingdom of God for ever more.

I told you, Catholics are honest because;

1) they believe their church is built upon human being Peter and human fabricated tradition, not upon the Rock of Salvation, Jesus Christ

2) they believe in god, the son of a woman, son of Queen of Heaven, not the God Almight who created Universe and all human beings including Mary.

3) they believe that they go to Purgatory for indefinite time ( maybe billions of years or more), not to the heaven yet!

4) Their holy father if Pope,( Our Holy Father is God the Father)

5) Their bible is pagan apochrypha! They ignore all the Bible which prohibit Idolatry and goddess worship, they believe Apocrypha is on top of all the other Bible! We truly born again Christians believe only the Bible is Words of God.

 

[DHK]

Sorry DHK. It does not separate the Baptists from all the others. Are you saying that you are the only ones who have it right? Unbelievable.

I too will say that the Bible is our final authority. The Shorter Catechism says it this way: "Q. 2. What rule hath God given to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him? A. The word of God, which is contained in the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, is the only rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him."

But then again, Bob will tell you that the Adventists' final authority is the Bible. The same with the Methodists, the Lutherans, etc., etc.

And all denominations have traditions - some supported by Scripture, some not.

I can list about 8 distinctives which make Baptists distinct from other religions. That the Bible is our final authority in all matters of faith and doctrine is but one of them. The fact that you must quote a catechism shows that ultimately you don't have the Bible as your only authority, you have a catechism as another authority. Sola Scriptura teaches that concerning faith and doctrine the Bible is all sufficient as our authority. Thus a catechism is not needed.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Unfortunately, the whole situation of Catholics is exactly the same as your user name here. The Catholics who are going to spend millions of years ( or billions of years because we are sure that no human prayer or effort can satisfy God or appease the wrath of God or purify the mentality of human being) in the hot Inferno are very similar to the Pizzas in the hot oven. Catholics are really tragic Pizzas in the hot oven! O miserable Catholics!
They strongly believe and insist that they should go to Purgatory! to the hot oven!
We, born-again Christians, don't go to Purgatory, but to the Heaven via Paradise and will live in the Kingdom of God for ever more.

I told you, Catholics are honest because;

1) they believe their church is built upon human being Peter and human fabricated tradition, not upon the Rock of Salvation, Jesus Christ

2) they believe in god, the son of a woman, son of Queen of Heaven, not the God Almight who created Universe and all human beings including Mary.

3) they believe that they go to Purgatory for indefinite time ( maybe billions of years or more), not to the heaven yet!

4) Their holy father if Pope,( Our Holy Father is God the Father)

5) Their bible is pagan apochrypha! They ignore all the Bible which prohibit Idolatry and goddess worship, they believe Apocrypha is on top of all the other Bible! We truly born again Christians believe only the Bible is Words of God.

Again, turn of the polemic spigot, get some facts (like this: the Catholic Bible is identical to yours, except fo the deuterocanonicals between the OT and NT), and get back to me.

And DHK, your accusation that only Baptists accept Scripture as their final authority is unfounded and offensive. You are above lying, my friend.