The Pope

[I Am Blessed 24]

your accusation that only Baptists accept Scripture as their final authority is unfounded and offensive

I would not say that only Baptists accept Scripture as their final authority, but I WOULD say that Catholics certainly do not.

I was raised in the RCC church AND school and the rest of my family is still there. They are not encouraged to read the Bible (although they do read more now than they used to). Their final authority is the Pope...

I did not even own a Bible until I got out of the RCC.

 

[bound]

I would not say that only Baptists accept Scripture as their final authority, but I WOULD say that Catholics certainly do not.

Grace and Peace,

It's a tricky thing to say that we accept Scripture as our final authority. A lot of people say that and ultimately are an eisegete.

I was raised in the RCC church AND school and the rest of my family is still there. They are not encouraged to read the Bible (although they do read more now than they used to). Their final authority is the Pope...

I did not even own a Bible until I got out of the RCC.

Yeah, in an effort to safeguard themselves from a multitude of eisegetes all fighting over their own interpretation of the Bible they opted to submit to an authoritative body (the Magisterium) for a historical interpretation. We, on the other hand, appear to submit to Biblical Scholars who argue our own exegesis/eisegesis depending who you ask. To be honest, who can really claim an eisegesis-free interpretation? :tonofbricks:

Regardless, it's a shame that such concerns keeps RCC's away from the Bible. It can be a bit risky, on your own, but ultimately I believe that is what we are asked to do.

God Bless.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

The fact that you must quote a catechism shows that ultimately you don't have the Bible as your only authority, you have a catechism as another authority. Sola Scriptura teaches that concerning faith and doctrine the Bible is all sufficient as our authority. Thus a catechism is not needed.

Now you're being silly. I can't believe that you are that ignorant.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

I can list about 8 distinctives which make Baptists distinct from other religions.

Yes, I know the distinctives (I was Baptist for 20+ years). BTW, where do you find these distinctives? Do you go to the London Confession? Do you look to the Baptist Faith & Message? Or, do you just have your own distinctives within your own church's web site.

Also, I didn't know that Baptists were a religion all to their own. I thought they were a denomination.

 

[bound]

Yes, I know the distinctives (I was Baptist for 20+ years). BTW, where do you find these distinctives? Do you go to the London Confession? Do you look to the Baptist Faith & Message? Or, do you just have your own distinctives within your own church's web site.

Also, I didn't know that Baptists were a religion all to their own. I thought they were a denomination.

FriendofSpurgeon,

Are you Catholic?

God Bless.

 

[DHK]

Yes, I know the distinctives (I was Baptist for 20+ years). BTW, where do you find these distinctives? Do you go to the London Confession? Do you look to the Baptist Faith & Message? Or, do you just have your own distinctives within your own church's web site.

Also, I didn't know that Baptists were a religion all to their own. I thought they were a denomination.

Baptists, to the surprise of many, are not a denomination of their own. The closest that they can come to that is in the SBC, the largest group of Baptists which calls themselves a convention. I belong to an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church. It doesn't belong to any association or convention. It is completely autonomous and free from any association or convention whatsoever. We do not belong to a denomintation. Denominations are not found in the Bible. Paul, on his missionary journesy, established "churches" not denominations. Each church was independent of each other and had its own church government, and own problems indigenous to that particular church.
Those churches did not look to Rome for advise, they looked to the Lord, and sometimes to Paul, as a missionary, who helped start those churches.

We find that there are similar churches, Baptist in belief, in every century from the Apostles onward, though they may be called by other names. Unlike groups like the Lutherans who have Luther as their founder, no one can point to an actual founder for the Baptists. They have existed all along, and existed long before the Reformation even started.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

FriendofSpurgeon,

Are you Catholic?

God Bless.

No, Presbyterian. The catechism that was quoted was from the Westminster Shorter Catechism. The Shorter Catechism, the Larger Catechism and the Westminster Confession of Faith were all developed in the mid 1600's.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Bound: Are YOU Catholic?

Your profile says nondenominational and when asked for a church, you put 'church hopping'...

 

[bound]

Bound: Are YOU Catholic?

Yes, I am both catholic and orthodox... :thumbs:

Your profile says nondenominational and when asked for a church, you put 'church hopping'...

Nondenominational is my label, if your going to label me but I'm largely arminian with regard for theological outlook. I grew up and was married Baptist but I think of myself as more nondenominational than Baptist since Reformed Theology has slowly taken over most of the Baptist Churches around. As for my local church, I am looking since Riverview Baptist turned liberal on me and my wife... long story. We still attend but I no longer claim it as my home. :tear:

God Bless.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

How can you be Catholic AND nondenominational???

 

[bound]

How can you be Catholic AND nondenominational???

Small 'c' catholic as in 'universal' Christian... not Roman... :laugh:

 

[tragic_pizza]

Baptists, to the surprise of many, are not a denomination of their own.

With respect, DHK, saying Baptist are not a denomination is like the "post-church-age" folk who insist that their churches aren't churches, or the "Emergent" folk who try to act like their worship services aren't worship services.

You're just playing semantics, my friend. The reality is as has been stated: The Baptist church is a denomination. Several, in fact.

 

[DHK]

With respect, DHK, saying Baptist are not a denomination is like the "post-church-age" folk who insist that their churches aren't churches, or the "Emergent" folk who try to act like their worship services aren't worship services.

You're just playing semantics, my friend. The reality is as has been stated: The Baptist church is a denomination. Several, in fact.

You will have a tough time proving that.

 

[Rufus_1611]

With respect, DHK, saying Baptist are not a denomination is like the "post-church-age" folk who insist that their churches aren't churches, or the "Emergent" folk who try to act like their worship services aren't worship services.

You're just playing semantics, my friend. The reality is as has been stated: The Baptist church is a denomination. Several, in fact.

Denominations are groups of congregations that have a leadership hierarchy. New testament Baptist churches do not form up denominations as they are independent congregations with local, autonomous leadership.

 

[BobRyan]

Denominations are groups of congregations that have a leadership hierarchy. New testament Baptist churches do not form up denominations as they are independent congregations with local, autonomous leadership.

Try going to the Baptist-only section of this board as a non-Baptist and see if they simply comply with the idea that "Baptist" is not a formal defined group with a specific set of beliefs and membership runing ACROSS local congregations!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

With respect, DHK, saying Baptist are not a denomination is like the "post-church-age" folk who insist that their churches aren't churches, or the "Emergent" folk who try to act like their worship services aren't worship services.

You're just playing semantics, my friend. The reality is as has been stated: The Baptist church is a denomination. Several, in fact.

Denomination just means "grouping" and it implies a common set of beliefs - period!

Baptist's "common set" of beliefs may not be "huge" but it exists - try going to the "baptist only section" of this board as a non-baptist and posting if you still think the term Baptist is "local and undefined".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I would not say that only Baptists accept Scripture as their final authority, but I WOULD say that Catholics certainly do not.

I was raised in the RCC church AND school and the rest of my family is still there. They are not encouraged to read the Bible (although they do read more now than they used to). Their final authority is the Pope...

I did not even own a Bible until I got out of the RCC.

Almost every non-Caltholic Christian group claims to accept the Bible as their sole source of doctrinal authority.

Nothing new there - except the idea that one person does not think that everybody is making that claim.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Catholicism does not draw all of its distinctives from Scripture. While transubstantiation is based upon a flawed understanding of some Scriptural passages, things such as purgatory, worship-like veneration of Mary and other dead people, withholding part of the Lord's Supper from most Christians, and similar cannot be drawn from Scripture.

Now see - Darron and I agree on something.

Catholic apologetics books commonly attack the `sole authority of Scripture' very close to the beginning. Why? Because many Catholic distinctives cannot be drawn from Scripture. A passage in the footer of my posts ought to indicate the credibility of those.

Here is a KEY point. The "Accusation" that Catholics do NOT draw all their teachings from the Bible alone -- is NOT something Catholics deny. It is a genuine legitimate accepted difference.

How nice if we could keep that in mind at all times.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Eliyahu]

No, Presbyterian. The catechism that was quoted was from the Westminster Shorter Catechism. The Shorter Catechism, the Larger Catechism and the Westminster Confession of Faith were all developed in the mid 1600's.

Many reformed groups started in a good sense fighting against Roman Catholic then. But today those denominations are quite different from their ancestors. I think Presgbyterians and Lutheran are modified Roman Catholic or Reformed Roman Catholic. Methodists are the reformed Anglican church. I am afraid the most of them will return to Roman Catholic when the Great Tribulation comes and the persecution against the true believers comes.
Baptists have no founder, no starting point, because Jesus Christ was the founder, and the early church was their original church. Virtually we don't have any accurate history about the starting point of Baptist church. Anabaptist or Wiedertaufer was just a group in their history where even the non-believers penetrated once when they prosper. We don't know very much about Waldenses or other Bruder Gemeinde, but God has the accurate history written in His book.
Even among Baptists today, there are many of Catholic minded people, I notice. Salvation and sanctification belong to individual matter, not to any denomination. When the Anti-Christ comes, there will be so many followers even among the protestant church people, which is a big tragedy. But to the true believers, it doesn't matter. We will win eventually. Thanks to God thru Jesus Christ.

 

[Eliyahu]

I think Darron Steel was seeing and pointing out the Forest of Roman Catholic, not only the Trees of RC.