The Pope

[DHK]

Try going to the Baptist-only section of this board as a non-Baptist and see if they simply comply with the idea that "Baptist" is not a formal defined group with a specific set of beliefs and membership runing ACROSS local congregations!

in Christ,

Bob

You have not defined a denomination. Many of the people posting in the Baptist Only sections would never be accepted as members in one another churches for various reasons. For that reason alone it is not a denomination. The "Baptist" membership in our church does not automatically make us a member in another Baptist church, and in many churches does not give us the right to partake of the elements of the Lord's Table.
Each church is totally independent and autonomous, one from another. They are assemblies, or local churches, not a denomination of churches.

 

[BobRyan]

Local congregations affiliated with the SBC CAN be seen to use the same doctrinal creed in practice and CAN be seen so clearly that the Moderators have no problem at all saying that one section of this online message board is for "baptists only".

That is beyond dispute.

The quirk among baptists of claiming that they can not be seen by EVERYBODY ELSE to be a "group" a denomination is entertaining to everyone else.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Local congregations affiliated with the SBC CAN be seen to use the same doctrinal creed in practice and CAN be seen so clearly that the Moderators have no problem at all saying that one section of this online message board is for "baptists only".

That is beyond dispute.

The quirk among baptists of claiming that they can not be seen by EVERYBODY ELSE to be a "group" a denomination is entertaining to everyone else.

In Christ,

Bob

The SBC is the closest thing that you will see to a denomination of Baptists. It is a convention. But I am not SBC, but rather IFB, the farthest from SBC that one can get. In the SBC there is much diversity. There are liberal churches and conservative churches, though the convention itself has set forth some official defining distinctives which you can get from their website. I don't necessarily agree with all they have to say.
To show you the wide disparity the American Baptist Association allows females to be pastors, whereas almost all others do not.
There are many associations and conventions that resulted from liberalism sweeping into this country around the early 19th century. The battle for Fundamentalism ensued as an attack against liberalism and different associations and conventions were formed, mostly according to geographical areas at first. But among them some gave into liberalism; some tried the middle road of compromise and became "new evangelical; and a few either remained fundamental, or broke away to become fundamental. Most of the fundamental churches today are IFB churches.
But the general distinctives of what defines a Baptist has not changed, though there be many associations and conventions. They are not a denomination.

 

[BobRyan]

I concede the point that IFB and SBC are also recognized subgroups with defined distinctions within the larger Baptist group. I did not mean to paint with such a broad brush as to imply that all Baptists are viewed as one group when we see actually dozens of subgroups (some pentecostal some snake-handling some... ) but what we DO NOT see is a church-by-church distinction so that you have to REDEFINE the general doctrines of what it means to be baptist going from SBC congregation to SBC congregation... nor even going from IFB local group to IFB local group.

There remain general doctrinal statements that they hold to and that can be easily seen.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[tragic_pizza]

Denomination just means "grouping" and it implies a common set of beliefs - period!

Baptist's "common set" of beliefs may not be "huge" but it exists - try going to the "baptist only section" of this board as a non-baptist and posting if you still think the term Baptist is "local and undefined".

In Christ,

Bob

This is my understanding of the term "denomination;" thus the Baptists are a denomination whether they join in an orgaized hierarchy or not.

 

[Rufus_1611]

This is my understanding of the term "denomination;" thus the Baptists are a denomination whether they join in an orgaized hierarchy or not.

A denomination is a fellowship of congregations that have a shared administrative hierarchy. If you continue to believe Independant Baptist churches are denominational could you please define for me what a non-denominational church is?

Denomination
A group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organised under a single administrative and legal hierarchy e.g. Anglicans, Presbyterians, Catholics etc.
(Source: http://library.christchurch.org.nz/FamilyHistory/Glossary/)

de·nom·i·na·tion (dĭ-nŏm'ə-nā'shən) Pronunciation Key
n. A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy. (Source: American Heritage Dictionary)​

 

[DHK]

This is my understanding of the term "denomination;" thus the Baptists are a denomination whether they join in an orgaized hierarchy or not.

denomination

a religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/denomination

Go to the Baptist Only section of the board, and please tell me if all our congregations would be united in beliefs and practices.

 

[Eliyahu]

This thread is about the Pope. Before we reach the end, can we know about the Pope John Paul 1 who suddenly died in about one month after he was elected as the Pope? How did he die? Was he so ill at the time when he was elected? Didn't the electors know about his health? or Did God smite him?
Or was he assassinated or poisoned? Does anyone know about it? If you have any Info about this, please let us know it.
I am talking about the Pope John Paul the First who was between Pope Paul 6 and Pope John II who died recently. He may have died in 1978.

 

[Dustin]

A denomination is a fellowship of congregations that have a shared administrative hierarchy. If you continue to believe Independant Baptist churches are denominational could you please define for me what a non-denominational church is?

Denomination
A group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organised under a single administrative and legal hierarchy e.g. Anglicans, Presbyterians, Catholics etc.
(Source: http://library.christchurch.org.nz/FamilyHistory/Glossary/)

de·nom·i·na·tion (dĭ-nŏm'ə-nā'shən) Pronunciation Key
n. A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy. (Source: American Heritage Dictionary)


​

House churches are non-denominational. But they have different distinctives, like Baptist or Reformed. or Wesleyan. One house church might be Reformed, hardcore Calvinist, and one might be liberals bordering on Pelagianism. Some practice full emmersion baptism, some pour or sprinkle. Some have a pastor, some just have a group of elders that take turns preaching. Some might have the Lord's Supper every week, some not that often.

In a denomination, those distinctives are just agreed upon by a bunch of local churches and adhered to , most of the time anyway. I don't have a problem with denominations or house churches, as long as the Word is faithfully preached and the Sacraments are administered. IFB's would be a local church who call themselves baptists, hold to baptist distintives, but are not a part of any mainline baptist denominations. Independent Fundemental Baptists are exactly what the name says they are, independent, fundemental, and baptist.

Perhaps it's really not about what the sign in front of the church says, but the distinctives. I'll have to think more on it.

Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

 

[Rufus_1611]

This thread is about the Pope. Before we reach the end, can we know about the Pope John Paul 1 who suddenly died in about one month after he was elected as the Pope? How did he die? Was he so ill at the time when he was elected? Didn't the electors know about his health? or Did God smite him?
Or was he assassinated or poisoned? Does anyone know about it? If you have any Info about this, please let us know it.
I am talking about the Pope John Paul the First who was between Pope Paul 6 and Pope John II who died recently. He may have died in 1978.

According to Eric John Phelps, in his book called VaticanAssassins, Pope John Paul I was assassinated by Jesuits via an airborne cyanide capsule.

 

[Eliyahu]

According to Eric John Phelps, in his book called VaticanAssassins, Pope John Paul I was assassinated by Jesuits via an airborne cyanide capsule.

What I understood was that Pope John Paul I started the investigation of the bank accounts for the black money and money laundery etc. Then the group under so-called Black Pope came upon there.I don't know any further. I wonder how Catholic or Catholic advocators see this event. Did Pope John Paul II get along with this group very well ? Is that the way of the Vicar Christ? or Is the assassination a way of Holy Spirit's doing on this world?

 

[tragic_pizza]

Oh, please.

You guys believe everything you read, I guess.

Good thing y'all never got hold of "Holy Blood, Holy Grail."

 

[Rufus_1611]

What I understood was that Pope John Paul I started the investigation of the bank accounts for the black money and money laundery etc. Then the group under so-called Black Pope came upon there.I don't know any further.

I've read similar accounts.

I wonder how Catholic or Catholic advocators see this event.

Ask Tragic_Pizza.

Did Pope John Paul II get along with this group very well ?

Since he lasted more than 33 days, I expect he did.

Is that the way of the Vicar Christ? or Is the assassination a way of Holy Spirit's doing on this world?

This is the way of antichrist.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Pass out the tinfoil hats, folks.

 

[Eliyahu]

I understand there have been about 305 popes thru the history and 20 of them were not so called legitimate and another 20 were controversial. Some of them ruled only a few days. Sometimes 2 men claimed the legitimacy as the ope at that time.
Some of them like Alexander 6 died of the sexually transmitted diseases.

I am amazed to read the article which tells us that Irish priests instigated the people to torture and slaughter the Protestant settlers, by cutting limbs, ears, gorging out the eyes, boiling the children, raping the women.

The article is here:

http://www.scotchirish.net/1641.php4