The Primitive Churches

[Martin Marprelate]

The primitive churches were not mere assemblies of men who agreed to meet together once or twice a week, and to subscribe for the support of an accomplished man who should on those occasions deliver lectures on religion. They were men gathered out of the world by the preaching of the cross, and formed into society for the promotion of Christ's kingdom in their own souls and in the world around them. It was not the concern of the ministers or elders only; the body of the people were interested in all that was done, and, according to their several abilities and stations, took part in it. Neither were they assemblies of heady, high-minded, contentious people, meeting together to argue on points of doctrine or discipline, and converting the worship of God into scenes of strife. They spoke the truth; but it was in love; they observed discipline; but like an army of chosen men, it was that they might attack the kingdom of Satan to greater advantage. Happy were it for our churches if we could come to a closer imitation of this model.
[Andrew Fuller]

 

[kyredneck]

What’s your point Martin?

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

What’s your point Martin?

I believe Martin is saying that going to gather isn't just to hear the man preaching, we should all do our part, worship together, its all our concern. Sometimes we think we need a degree or be a missonary to do something but we all have our point. They were gathering to read the truth, diligently searching the scripture and following God's will as a whole.

 

[kyredneck]

Martin wants to smear the Primitive Baptists. The Marthas will always complain against the Marys.

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

I do not understand

 

[kyredneck]

I do not understand

Hang around, you will.

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

Okay, we will see.

 

[David Lamb]

Martin wants to smear the Primitive Baptists. The Marthas will always complain against the Marys.

Where do you find that in his post? It consisted entirely of a quote from Andrew Fuller, a baptist, which spoke positively of primitive churches.

 

[DaveXR650]

They spoke the truth; but it was in love; they observed discipline; but like an army of chosen men, it was that they might attack the kingdom of Satan to greater advantage. Happy were it for our churches if we could come to a closer imitation of this model.
[Andrew Fuller]

There's a guy out of Charlotte, N.C., Michael Kruger, who writes on the early church. I've been reading some of his work and this is true. In those days they were not debating the fine points of theology as much and they had a much greater sense of the cosmic battle of Satan and his kingdom of this world as opposed to the early Christians. I commented in another thread that I did not see why you would want to separate from Andrew Fuller based on anything said in "The Gospel Worthy of All Acceptation", but so far there has been no reply. I don't know much about Fuller as I have only read that one paper but from the OP it seems he is alright.

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

There's a guy out of Charlotte, N.C., Michael Kruger, who writes on the early church. I've been reading some of his work and this is true. In those days they were not debating the fine points of theology as much and they had a much greater sense of the cosmic battle of Satan and his kingdom of this world as opposed to the early Christians. I commented in another thread that I did not see why you would want to separate from Andrew Fuller based on anything said in "The Gospel Worthy of All Acceptation", but so far there has been no reply. I don't know much about Fuller as I have only read that one paper but from the OP it seems he is alright.

I guess unity is a good thing, since we are all in the same mind and doctrine. Paul did mention this but this the new idea of unity of Eucnmenicsm isn't the same.

We shouldn't comprise to other religions and denominations like Catholics.

I am not really sure about this Fuller either.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There's a guy out of Charlotte, N.C., Michael Kruger, who writes on the early church. I've been reading some of his work and this is true. In those days they were not debating the fine points of theology as much and they had a much greater sense of the cosmic battle of Satan and his kingdom of this world as opposed to the early Christians. I commented in another thread that I did not see why you would want to separate from Andrew Fuller based on anything said in "The Gospel Worthy of All Acceptation", but so far there has been no reply. I don't know much about Fuller as I have only read that one paper but from the OP it seems he is alright.

Define alright! The guy disrupted full operating system of churches and that’s alright with you!?!

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

Explain more about this "disrupted full operating system of churches."

 

[DaveXR650]

Define alright!

I did. I said that the only work of Fuller I was familiar with was "The Gospel Worthy of All Acceptation". And I said that everything I saw in that work was "alright". You're the one who came on the other thread and derided that work and Fuller. Explain what is wrong with it. Are you saying that someone who wants to talk to unbelievers with the idea that they may be able to assist them in coming to Christ is doing something false?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I did. I said that the only work of Fuller I was familiar with was "The Gospel Worthy of All Acceptation". And I said that everything I saw in that work was "alright". You're the one who came on the other thread and derided that work and Fuller. Explain what is wrong with it. Are you saying that someone who wants to talk to unbelievers with the idea that they may be able to assist them in coming to Christ is doing something false?

Explain what’s right about splitting churches. And I do not talk to unbelievers. That’s the Holy Spirits job. But I will speak people who are regenerated and looking for clarification on Gods plan of salvation and Grace.

 

[DaveXR650]

@Earth Wind and Fire. Stop begging the question. Who said anything about splitting churches? Where in the paper I cited or the OP quote from Fuller is there anything about splitting churches? I don't think you should split churches. But if someone in your church was to commit the heresy of talking to unbelievers would you kick them out? And if several of them agreed it would be OK to do that would you kick all of them out? Wouldn't that be splitting the church? Who's got the problem?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

@Earth Wind and Fire. Stop begging the question. Who said anything about splitting churches? Where in the paper I cited or the OP quote from Fuller is there anything about splitting churches? I don't think you should split churches. But if someone in your church was to commit the heresy of talking to unbelievers would you kick them out? And if several of them agreed it would be OK to do that would you kick all of them out? Wouldn't that be splitting the church? Who's got the problem?

Yes I would…and no it wouldn’t be splitting the church because non believers are not invited in in the first place. Fuller came in preaching another gospel alien to PB doctrine and practice. I suspect he was a Arminian, not something we accept as valid.

 

[DaveXR650]

Martin wants to smear the Primitive Baptists.

You guys don't need his help.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Martin wants to smear the Primitive Baptists. The Marthas will always complain against the Marys.

I don't need to smear your Primitive Baptists. You do that quite effectively yourself.
One thing that Fuller did was to challenge his opponents to find any Baptist who opposed the free offer of the Gospel before 1700. No one could. Your Primitive Baptists aren't very primitive.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

A hymn by Joseph Hart (1712-1768)

Come, ye sinners, poor and wretched,
Weak and wounded, sick, and sore;
Jesus ready stands to save you,
Full of pity, joined with power ;
He is able,
He is willing: doubt no more.

2 Ho! ye needy; come and welcome ;
God's free bounty glorify.
True belief and true repentance,
Every grace that brings us nigh,
Without money,
Come to Jesus Christ and buy.

3 Let not conscience make you linger,
Nor of fitness fondly dream ;
All the fitness he requireth,
Is to feel your need of him
This he gives you ;
'Tis the Spirit's rising beam.

4 Come, ye weary, heavy laden,
Lost and ruined by the fall ;
If you tarry till you're better,
You will never come at all.
Not the righteous ;
Sinners Jesus came to call.

5 View him prostrate in the garden,
On the ground your Maker lies!
On the bloody tree behold him
Hear him cry, before he dies,
"It is finished, "
Sinner, will not this suffice?

6 Lo! the incarnate God, ascended,
Pleads the merit of his blood.
Venture on him, venture wholly ;
Let no other trust intrude.
None but Jesus,
Can do helpless sinners good.

7 Saints and angels, joined in concert,
Sing the praises of the Lamb
While the blissful seats of heaven
Sweetly echo with his name.
Hallelujah !
Sinners here may sing the same.

Joseph Hart

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

Great hymn.