The PROBLEM OF EVIL

[atpollard]

From another topic on Politics, moved here to give everyone a chance to weigh in:

how about murder, rape, child molestation, are these ordained by God??? This teaching is RANK HERESY and from the devil!

For very personal reasons I have given this question more than a little thought.

Choose whichever event pushes your buttons (a murder, a rape or a child molestation) and answer the following questions:

1. Was God unaware of what was going on?
   • Yes: God is not Omniscient and, therefore not "God".
   • No: Then God knew what was happening.
2. Was God too busy somewhere else to do something about what was going on?
   1. Yes: God is not Omnipresent and, therefore not "God".
   2. No: Then God was right there as the evil was happening.
3. Was God unable to stop what was going on?
   1. Yes: God is not Omnipotent and, therefore not "God".
   2. No: Then God could have stopped the evil but chose not to.

So there are only three logical possibilities.
The first is that God does not exist because there is no Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent Being.
The second possibility is God is malevolent and enjoys evil.
The third is that God has a reason for not stopping the evil.

When I was 8 and a friend in school was raped by his mother's boyfriend, I started asking these questions and by the age of 11 came to agree with Bertrand Russel that "the evidence of contemporary christian life is such that god, if he ever existed, must surely be dead."

When a "road to Damascus" encounter rendered that worldview impossible for me and I had to face the murder of my own brother and God's hand in it ... I chose to believe that like Job and Joseph and Stephen, God had a good reason for what seemed like senseless evil that He could have prevented (but which God had actually ordained for a purpose).

 

[utilyan]

From another topic on Politics, moved here to give everyone a chance to weigh in:



For very personal reasons I have given this question more than a little thought.

Choose whichever event pushes your buttons (a murder, a rape or a child molestation) and answer the following questions:

1. Was God unaware of what was going on?
   • Yes: God is not Omniscient and, therefore not "God".
   • No: Then God knew what was happening.
2. Was God too busy somewhere else to do something about what was going on?
   1. Yes: God is not Omnipresent and, therefore not "God".
   2. No: Then God was right there as the evil was happening.
3. Was God unable to stop what was going on?
   1. Yes: God is not Omnipotent and, therefore not "God".
   2. No: Then God could have stopped the evil but chose not to.

So there are only three logical possibilities.
The first is that God does not exist because there is no Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent Being.
The second possibility is God is malevolent and enjoys evil.
The third is that God has a reason for not stopping the evil.

When I was 8 and a friend in school was raped by his mother's boyfriend, I started asking these questions and by the age of 11 came to agree with Bertrand Russel that "the evidence of contemporary christian life is such that god, if he ever existed, must surely be dead."

When a "road to Damascus" encounter rendered that worldview impossible for me and I had to face the murder of my own brother and God's hand in it ... I chose to believe that like Job and Joseph and Stephen, God had a good reason for what seemed like senseless evil that He could have prevented (but which God had actually ordained for a purpose).

"God had a good reason for what seemed like senseless evil "

It was senseless evil, Not sugar coated evil. Just because God allows it or counters it with a greater good doesn't mean he wanted the evil to take place.

When you sin you say to yourself well obviously God WANTED me to do this? That is absurd. Folks looking for a License to SIn.

When one seeks forgiveness do they say SORRY JESUS for doing exactly what you wanted me to do?

Show any scripture that says GOD WANTS and DESIRES your disobedience. The reason you sin is YOU wanted it to happen.

 

[Yeshua1]

"God had a good reason for what seemed like senseless evil "

It was senseless evil, Not sugar coated evil. Just because God allows it or counters it with a greater good doesn't mean he wanted the evil to take place.

When you sin you say to yourself well obviously God WANTED me to do this? That is absurd. Folks looking for a License to SIn.

When one seeks forgiveness do they say SORRY JESUS for doing exactly what you wanted me to do?

Show any scripture that says GOD WANTS and DESIRES your disobedience. The reason you sin is YOU wanted it to happen.

God permitted sin and evil acts be commited since Cain and Abel !

 

[utilyan]

God permitted sin and evil acts be commited since Cain and Abel !

Yes. God does not want or desire for you to sin today. He may still permit it. YOUR dilemma is understanding why because you don't understand mercy.

If you can understand God does things for GOOD REASONS not arbitrary selfish reasons, you might get this.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes. God does not want or desire for you to sin today. He may still permit it. YOUR dilemma is understanding why because you don't understand mercy.

If you can understand God does things for GOOD REASONS not arbitrary selfish reasons, you might get this.

God thoughts and ways are not our owe, as his are as far above ours as ours are above the ant!

 

[atpollard]

It was senseless evil, Not sugar coated evil. Just because God allows it or counters it with a greater good doesn't mean he wanted the evil to take place.

Have you read the Bible?

• God placed the Tree in the Garden making Adams fall even POSSIBLE!
• "Have you considered my servant Job" ... Who said that?
• "What you meant for evil, GOD MEANT FOR GOOD" ... Who said that?
• Who sent Babylon to punish Israel?
• Who sent Rome to crucify Jesus?
• Who sent Rome to destroy the Temple?

When you sin you say to yourself well obviously God WANTED me to do this? That is absurd. Folks looking for a License to SIn.

I have never said that, so speak for yourself but do not speak for me. As a sinner I owned my sins. If asked about God, I would have told you that he was a fairy tale, and if given the "what if" God is real, then I would admit I belong in Hell with every other being that opposed so indifferent a malicious monster. "He who has the power to do good (and God does) and does it not, sins."

As I said, "the problem of Evil" is more than PHILOSOPHICAL to me. It was literally life and death.

When one seeks forgiveness do they say SORRY JESUS for doing exactly what you wanted me to do?

Another strawman, what a surprise.
Try either stating YOUR beliefs or refuting what other people actually believe.
No one but you is claiming what you are saying.

Show any scripture that says GOD WANTS and DESIRES your disobedience. The reason you sin is YOU wanted it to happen.

That's called TOTAL DEPRAVITY in the 5 points of the Doctrines of Grace. EVERYONE wants to sin ...

[Romans 3:10-12]

• "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
  
• THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
  
• ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
  
• THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

[John 3:18-20]

• "he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

[Genesis 6:5]

• Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

[Genesis 8:21]

• The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done.

 

[37818]

1. Evil is not possible without good.
2. The knowledge of good and evil originates with God. Genesis 2:9. Genesis 3:22.
3. Evil will not be allowed in the New Heaven and Earth. Revelation 21:27.

 

[37818]

questions:

1. Was God unaware of what was going on?
   • Yes: God is not Omniscient and, therefore not "God".
   • No: Then God knew what was happening.
2. Was God too busy somewhere else to do something about what was going on?
   1. Yes: God is not Omnipresent and, therefore not "God".
   2. No: Then God was right there as the evil was happening.
3. Was God unable to stop what was going on?
   1. Yes: God is not Omnipotent and, therefore not "God".
   2. No: Then God could have stopped the evil but chose not to.

See my post #7 premise 1.

 

[utilyan]

Have you read the Bible?

• God placed the Tree in the Garden making Adams fall even POSSIBLE!
• "Have you considered my servant Job" ... Who said that?
• "What you meant for evil, GOD MEANT FOR GOOD" ... Who said that?
• Who sent Babylon to punish Israel?
• Who sent Rome to crucify Jesus?
• Who sent Rome to destroy the Temple?

I have never said that, so speak for yourself but do not speak for me. As a sinner I owned my sins. If asked about God, I would have told you that he was a fairy tale, and if given the "what if" God is real, then I would admit I belong in Hell with every other being that opposed so indifferent a malicious monster. "He who has the power to do good (and God does) and does it not, sins."

As I said, "the problem of Evil" is more than PHILOSOPHICAL to me. It was literally life and death.



Another strawman, what a surprise.
Try either stating YOUR beliefs or refuting what other people actually believe.
No one but you is claiming what you are saying.


That's called TOTAL DEPRAVITY in the 5 points of the Doctrines of Grace. EVERYONE wants to sin ...

[Romans 3:10-12]

• "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
  
• THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
  
• ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
  
• THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

[John 3:18-20]

• "he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

[Genesis 6:5]

• Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

[Genesis 8:21]

• The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done.

"Have you read the Bible?"

Do you know how to read?


None of those verses teach the total inability to do right and plenty of those verses are only particular generation of Jews repeating psalms.

You can do evil and have done evil does not equal you can't do good.


According to your theology SATAN won Job's challenge. That the only reason Job loves God is God manipulates him.

Job 1

9Then Satan answered the LORD, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10“Have You not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11“But put forth Your hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse You to Your face.”

The whole point of the challenge you've made into a laughable failure.