The Prophet Daniel and the Apostle John: The Two Witnesses?

I think from scripture it is clear John was that Elijah of Malachi. That puts the "day of the Lord" of Malachi in the time -frame of John the Baptist, which puts the "Tribulation" also in the time of John, which renders the question moot.:tonofbricks:

 

maybe they haven't been born yet...:saint:

 

Daniel and the Apostle John?

AresMan,

Quote:
______________________________________________________________
Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the Scribes that Elias must first come?
Mat 17:11 And Iesus answered, and said vnto them, Elias truely shall first come, and restore all things:
Mat 17:12 But I say vnto you, that Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but haue done vnto him whatsoeuer they listed: Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13 Then the Disciples vnderstood that he spake vnto them of Iohn the Baptist.
_____________________________________________________________

John the Baptist was dead when Jesus said "Elijah is coming and will restore (future tense) all things"! Peter predicted that "ALL THINGS WILL BE RESTORED" at the "times (plural) of restoration" which is still future!! Acts 3:21. The "great and wonderful Day" to which Peter also referred, is the Day Christ comes to "rescue Israel" and restore His former People at the head of the nations over which we also will rule for 1000 years!!!

Mel Miller www.lastday.net :saint:

 

Amen, Brother Mel Miller -- Preach it! :thumbs:

"Day of the Lord" refers to any time that God
intervenes in the affairs of mankind. Here
are some "Day of the Lord"s:

1. When God sent Jesus to the earth as a babe
destined for Calvary, Death, & Resurrection.
2. When God will send Jesus to collect His
Church Age people prior to the Tribulation period.
3. When God sends Jesus to Earth to destroy
the Antichrist and visibally rule from a physical
throne of David over a physical Yisrael in a
physical world for a non-literal Thousand Years:
the Millinnial Messanic Kingdom.
4. The Millinnial Messanic Kingdom

 

The Two Witnesses

Brother Ed,

You need to show the Two Witnesses are connected to the ONE Day of the Lord at which and during which the Two Witnesses rise up on the "last day" to fulfill the word of the Lord that "He will raise up all believers on the very same day He comes to destroy all the wicked"!

The 7th Trumpet is God's "appointed (kairos) time to judge the dead (resurrection) and to reward (rapture) the prophets and saints (including the two Witnesses) and ALL who fear God, both small and great, and to destroy (on that same day) the destroyers of earth"!! Rev.11:15-18.

The fulfillment of your #2 and #3 separated dayS must be combined into ONE SINGLE DAY OF THE LORD, at which time and during the 12 HOURS of which, ALL believers will be "raised up, snatched and gathered together above, taken to the Presence of the Lord as His Bride" AND ... because of His awesome glory and majesty all mankind left behind will instantly beg for mercy or involuntarily bow as their tongues rot in their mouths and their bodies disintegrate in their tracks!!!

The quickness and totality of God's Wrath cannot be spread out over a
period of hourS or dayS as in any historical time of God's judgment! His "anger and wrath" will be combined at the HOUR of the 7th Seal and 7th Trumpet and 7th Plague when there are "voices and flashes of lightning and peals of thunder and a great quake" with its aftershocks!! These will "destroy Babylon and earth's cities and mountains and move all the islands out of their places ON THE DAY Christ comes to be glorified in the Saints and in flaming fire to destroy all who refuse to repent"!!!
2 Thess.1:7-10.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net :applause:

 

Mel Miller: //The fulfillment of your #2 and #3 separated dayS
must be combined into ONE SINGLE DAY OF THE LORD ... //

This is your requirement, not God's.

-------------------------------------------
Comparing the rapture/resurrection (R) AKA: gathering
with the Second Advent (SC): when Jesus comes
to destroy the Antichrist and set up the
Millennial Messanic Kingdom AKA: Glorious Appearance.

1R. Jesus comes for His own ( given physical bodies)
(John 14:3, 1 Thess 4:17)
1SC. Jesus comes with His own (already have physical bodies) (Rev 19:14)

2R. Jesus comes in the air (1 Thes 4:17)
2SC. Jesus comes to the earth
(Zech 14:4-5, Acts 1:11)

3R. Jesus comes to claim His Bride
(1 Thess 4:16-17)
3SC. Jesus comes with His Bride
(Rev 19:6-14)

4R. end of the Gentile Age
(Matthew 24:3, 24:31-44)
4SC. end of the Tribulation Period
(Revelation 19)

5R. Tribulation period begins
5SC. Millennial Kingdom begins

6R. Saved are delivered from wrath
(1 Thes 1:10, 5:9; Rev 3:10)
6SC. Unsaved experience the wrath of God
(Rev 6:12-17)

7R. No Signs precede the Rapture
(1 Thess. 5:1-3, Matthew 24:31-44)
7SC. Signs precede the Second Coming
(Luke 21-11-28, Matthew 24:21-30)

8R. Focus: Lord and Church
(1 Thess 4:13-18)
8SC. Focus: Israel and kingdom
(Romans 11)

9R. World is deceived (2 Thess 2:3-12)
9SC. Satan is bound (Rev 20:1-2)

10R. No judgement mentioned on earth
10SC. Follows the Tribulation period
judgement and followed by the sheep/goats
judgement.

11R. Time of joy. (1Thessalonians 4:17-18)
11SC. Time of sorrow. (Matthew 24:30)

12R. relative peace and prosperity. (Lk.17:26-30).
12SC. the worst war the world has ever seen. (Mt.24:21,22).

13R. Christians are promised they will be delivered
-- from the wrath to come
13SC. Israeli are told to flee the wrath to come


You need to show the Two Witnesses are connected
to the ONE Day of the Lord at which and during which
the Two Witnesses rise up on the "last day" to fulfill
the word of the Lord that "He will raise up all believers
on the very same day He comes to destroy all the wicked"!

I think I already did.
The 'day' of which you speak is called a 'week'
or a 'seven' in Daniel 9:26.

Remember, in prophetic literature:

Day = the appropriate time
Hour = the appropriate time
Week = the appropriate time
Month = the appropriate time
Year = the appropriate time

Remember, in the dispensation (economy) of God:
the blind see
the lame walk
the rejected are exhaulted
the poor are rich
the sinner is clean
all who seek Him find Him

Revelation 11:1-3 (KJV1611 Edition):
And there was giuen me a reede like vnto a rod,
and the Angel stood, saying, Rise,
and measure the Temple of God, and the Altar,
and them that worship therein.
2 But the Court which is without the Temple leaue out,
and measure it not: for it is giuen vnto the Gentiles,
and the holy citie shall they tread vnder
foote fourty and two moneths.
3 And I will giue power vnto my two witnesses,
and they shall prophesie
a thousand two hundred and threescore dayes
clothed in sackcloth.

note the same 3½-year period during which the Temple
is rebuilt in Jerusalem, the two prophets prophesy.
Tis is not the same 3½-year time in which Yisrael
is kept by the hand of God in the Wilderness.
So the first 3½-years of the Tribulation Period is
marked by:

1. the rise of the Antichrist
2. the rebuilding of the Temple*
3. the ministry of the Two Prophets

* the daily sacrifice can start as soon as the Temple
starts building, it need only take place on the
Temple Mount.

 

Perhaps you should read more carefully. Jesus is repeating the prophecy that the disciples are referring to:

Mat 17:11 And Iesus answered, and said vnto them, Elias truely shall first come, and restore all things:

Then He clarifies their understanding that the Elijah that “was to come” has already come:

Mat 17:12 But I say vnto you, that Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but haue done vnto him whatsoeuer they listed: Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13 Then the Disciples vnderstood that he spake vnto them of Iohn the Baptist.

The disciples then understood it was John, not the physical Elijah or anyone else. Too bad most today still don’t see it.

 

____________________________________________________________
I beg to differ because Elijah hasn't died YET! Jesus repeated what He had said BEFORE John died, i.e., that "this is Elijah that was to come"!! Matt.11:14. But then He added, after John's death, that "Elijah is indeed coming and will (future tense) restore all things"!!!

The Baptist could not, DID NOT, restore "all things" after he was dead!!!

Mel Miller www.lastday.net :thumbs:

 

Once again, the text is clear:

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of Heaven is taken by violence, and the violent take it by force.
Mat 11:13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
Mat 11:14 And if you will receive it, this is Elijah who is to come.

Once again, Jesus tells us who the Elijah of Malachi's prophecy was. It was John the Baptist. (If you will recieve it).

Doesn't say this is a type or this is still future, but this is! Hey, exclamation points do make it seem as if one is correct.

By the way, Jesus never said this: "Elijah is indeed coming and will (future tense) restore all things"!!!

 

Grasshopper: //By the way, Jesus never said this:
"Elijah is indeed coming and will (future tense) restore all things"!!!

Actually, Jesus said exactly that:

The Holman Christian Standard Bible
Matthew 17:11 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ )
"Elijah is coming and will restore everything," He replied.

Try not to get hung up on:
Mat 17:11 (KJV1611 Edition):
And Iesus answered, and said vnto them,
Elias truely shall first come, and restore all things:

 

HCSB sounds more like a paraphrase version, what does the rest of the verse say?

Young's literal translation:

Mat 11:14 and if ye are willing to receive it , he is Elijah who was about to come;

My belief is they are the Prophets and the Law.

 

The Law represents one the Prophets represent the other.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

These verses are descriptive of the powers of Moses and Elijah. Moses representing the Law and Elijah representing the Prophets.

2Ki 1:10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

1Ki 17:1 And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the LORD God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word.


Exo 7:20 And Moses and Aaron did so, as the LORD commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.

Revelation draws on the symbols and imagery of the OT.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Just find the similar in the OT then you can potentially know what it is referring to in the NT. Find out who is called a Harlot in the OT and you will identify who the Harlot is in Revelation.

And rightfully so in my opinion. Do you interpret “shortly” and “at hand” metaphorically?


Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.


There are some preterist commentaries on Revelation that you can read that detail the events in a verse by verse manner. I’ll just ask you, according to Revelation 11:8, where was the Lord crucified?

Secondly, you said this:

"I see these verses exactly as he sees it--that John the Baptist was the complete fulfillment of the Malachi prophecy."

Doesn’t that mean you must also believe the events of that prophecy were also fulfilled in the generation of John?

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Do you agree with Gill that this spoke of the events of AD70?

Mal 4:1 - For, behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven,.... Not the day of judgment, as Kimchi and other interpreters, both Jewish and Christian, think; but the day of Christ's coming in his kingdom and power, to take vengeance on the Jewish nation, which burned like an oven, both figuratively and literally; when the wrath of God, which is compared to fire, came upon that people to the uttermost; and when their city and temple were burnt about their ears, and they were surrounded with fire, as if they had been in a burning oven: and this being so terrible, as can hardly be conceived and expressed, the word "behold" is prefixed to it, not only to excite attention, but horror and terror at so dreadful a calamity; which though future, when the prophet wrote, was certain: