Featured The Resurrection Body and 1st Cor. 15

When you say "spiritual" in contrast to "physical", I think you've not made the proper contrast. Scripture makes the following two contrasts, and it is important:

spirit vs. physical

spiritual vs. natural

In the first, the contrast would be that God is Spirit, and that we are spirit beings residing in a physical body

But the second contrast has nothing to do with ontology or metaphysical characteristics.
Spiritual = mature, blameless, complete, etc
Natural = immature, sinful, carnal

When Paul said we will have a "spiritual" body, he absolutely did not mean we will be disembodied. This sin-wrecked (natural) body will be transformed into one which is not sin-wrecked (spiritual)

 

I posted 3-4 times in the other thread on resurrection, building to what Paul meant by "spiritual" body.

He did not have in mind ontology or metaphysics.

Natural = carnal, defiled, sinful, immature, or even earthly. In short, sin-wrecked.
Spiritual = undefiled, sinless, mature, or heavenly. In short, NOT sin-wrecked.

In this life, we have a defiled physical body - natural
In the next, we will have an undefiled physical body - spiritual

 

One word: Gnosticism

 

Who would you be referring to?

I've seen at least one charge of Gnosticism against Tom in another thread, probably based on the idea that he's advocating a disembodied state. I gathered that, too, til he made mention of his view of a spiritual body.

I've also been charged with the same, due to a misconception that I'm advocating a dualistic view with physical matter being inherently evil. Yet, I have never mentioned any inherent quality. Corruption is not the same


Tom has not, that I know of, mentioned any Gnosis - and neither have I.


It might help to investigate Gnosticism before making your charge.

 

I was not referring to you but the OP. I thought your post was well done.

 

That's a pretty good intro, I've directed people there in the past.

And you're welcome from the previous post. I can't count the number of times that accusation has come my way.

Don't get too wound up about it.

 

Tom, you mentioned this in passing.
I heard from somebody that in our resurrection boy we shall not have blood (I think he also said flesh, not sure).
could you elaborate on that ?
thanks.
it's 1 a.m. where I am and I need to work in the morning.
so I'll catch up later.
thanks again.

 

Not Tom but some thoughts.

For the life (nephesh soul) > of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the (living) soul.

Adam was not created incorruptible, immortal but from the ground with the breath of life (spirit) from God in his blood, thus, a living soul.

Jesus, the son of Mary, the Son of God came into the world, just as Adam was created. Adam was the figure of him to come. Jesus was a living soul with what gave him life in his blood. That is how he was able to make a atonement for us. Jesus gave his life. Jesus poured out his soul. Jesus shed his blood. Jesus was dead.

By the resurrection from the dead by God, the Father of him Jesus the once living soul whose life was in his blood became quickening Spirit. Jesus born of Mary, resurrected from the dead, became the author of eternal salvation. Heb 5:9 His life (soul) was no longer in his blood. He was flesh and bone quickening spirit, life. Life was in himself. John 5:29 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17 If Christ has not been raised from the dead, incorruptible, there has been no atonement for the soul.

Contrary to what Ton believes the following presently can only be speaking of Jesus of whom the first man Adam was the figure thereof.

1 Cor 15: 45,46 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth John 5:26 first part.
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead; Gal 1:1
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1 Peter 1:21

God the Father gave Jesus glory at the resurrection, the same glory that we are joint heirs thereof with Jesus.

 

For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house G3613 oikētērion which is from heaven: 2 Cor 5:2

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own
habitation, G3613 oikētērion he hath reserved in everlasting chains under
darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude 6

The angels (sons of God) that "left their first estate" gave up their glorified bodies
to come to earth and copulated with human women to produce hybrid nephilim. Genesis 6:1-4

 

This is an absolute joke in regard to exegesis! 1 Corithians 15:1-11 is entirely devoted to provide eye witnesses to prove that the physical body of Jesus Christ came up out of the grave = resurrection. It has no bearing on the METAPHRORICAL body of Christ the church!! The gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 is not about the death and burial of the metaphorical body of Christ but of the literal physical body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:12-19 applies the individual personal bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ as the whole basis for the future hope of the physical bodily resurrection of the individual saint, especially for those saints which have already PHYSICALLY DIED.

Physical death is in view and that is why he says if there be no resurrection as illustrated in the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ then there is no hope for the saints who have already PHYSICALLY DIED. We are yet in our sins, because if there is no physical bodily resurrection then sin has not been paid for and death still reigns.

To insert the metaphorical body of Christ into this context is inexcusable and outright heretical as Paul clearly states that such who deny the physical bodily resurrection are FALSE WITNESSES, and remember that to be an apostle one had to be an EYE WITNESS of his physical resurrected body NOT A SPIRITUAL RESURRECTION OF A METAPHORICAL body of Christ!!!!

 

Partly from understanding Romans 5 as referring to physical death and resurrection. I went to a bible study once about 15 years ago. The guy hosting it had a doctorate from Dallas Theological Seminary, and I was a devotee of Walvoord, Ryrie and the gang.

I thought this was gonna be something special. Until he started this nonsense about "age" life. Aeon life. He had come to the conclusion that every single person, ever born, would go to Gehenna at death. Then every person would have aeon life.

I asked him very straightforward and unfiltered, "wait a minute...you guys aren't some kind of Universalist cult, are you?!?"

He laughed and said they'd been called a cult before.

In short, he was a Universalist masquerading as an Evangelical. And he used Romans 5:18 as his proof text. I was answering the best I knew how, but I also recognized that my answers were insufficient.

So I began to study. I could not get around the fact that he was right. There's a universal application in Rom 5. I also saw a striking similarity between Rom 5:12-21 and 1Cor 15:21-22.

Around the same time, I was really immersed in studying Gnostic heresies, early writings, etc.

So I guess the short of it is that it was a cumulative thing, and my paradigm was adjusted.

I started to see Romans 7-8, where Paul speaks of this body of death, the inner man and outer man, and how the Spirit will give life to our mortal body; also Peter and Paul referring to our body as a tent, John 1:14 saying that Jesus pitched His tent in our midst,

Also seeing that Titus 3:5 and Matthew 19:28 both use palingenesia, born again. Paul said the washing of "regeneration" while Jesus was speaking of the "renewal" of all things, obviously at a later time.

Honestly, it is so much more than just one chapter

Then about 10 years ago, I started reading dissertations online. I read one on the resurrection which just about knocked my socks off. It was everything I was seeing in scripture x10.

And in that thread I mentioned from a few months ago, I really started to bring together a full-fledged look into the scriptures. Have you read it? There's definitely more, too

btw, I'm not sure why the frowny face is at the top of this post, nor how it got there

 

QUESTIONS:

1. Is 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 about the spiritual resurrection of the metaphorical body of Christ the church OR is it about the physical bodily resurrection of Christ?

2. Is 1 Corinthains 15:5-11 about witnesses of the spiritual resurrection of the metaphorical body of Christ the church OR about witnesses of the physical resurrected body of Christ?

3. Is 1 Corinthians 15:12-13 and the repeated words "the dead" refer to the metaphorical body of Christ the church OR about the physical body of Christ that had actually died and the physical body of saints who have actually died?

4. This context is about the resurrection of "the dead" is it not? What is "dead" and what has "died" that needs to be resurrected? He applies this to those "in Christ" who have physically died (sleep in Jesus) in verse 18. Why have they "perished" if there be no resurrection of "the dead"??? What aspect of those "in Christ" which sleep is still "dead"? Their spiri and soul OR their body???