The Returning to Nazareth.

[37818]

Luke 2:39, ". . . And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, . . ."

Matthew 2:13-15, ". . . the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. . . ."

Hosea 11:1, ". . When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. . . ."

Exodus 4:22-23, ". . . And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: [ And I say unto thee, Let my son go . . . ."

Matthew 2:19-23, ". . . when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life. And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel. But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee: And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene. . . ."

Luke 2;39, ". . . And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth. . . ."

 

[Aaron]

that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. . . ."

Hosea 11:1, ". . When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. . . ."

Exodus 4:22-23, ". . . And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: [ And I say unto thee, Let my son go . . . ."

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Galatians 3:16

 

[37818]

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Galatians 3:16

Is not what "they had performed . . . according to the law of the Lord, . . ."

The purpose of this thread is to show where Matthew's account fits with Luke's account in those historical events.

 

[canadyjd]

Is not what "they had performed . . . according to the law of the Lord, . . ."

The purpose of this thread is to show where Matthew's account fits with Luke's account in those historical events.

This is interesting. I haven’t noticed it before.

When the Magi came to Herod, he directed them to Bethlehem. It was probably about 2 years after the birth of Jesus. Matthew tells us the star took them to the house where Jesus was, but does not say where He was. I always thought they stayed in Bethlehem until that time, fled to Egypt to avoid the slaughter of innocents, then returned, going to Nazareth.

But Luke tells us after they completed the purification rituals (circumcised the eight day) they return to Nazareth, but doesn’t mention the flight to Egypt at all.

Just briefly thinking about it, it seems the only way to reconcile the passages is that they returned to Nazareth after 8 days. It was there the Magi came to offer gifts and from there they fled to Egypt.

Thanks for posting. Very interesting.

peace to you

 

[37818]

This is interesting. I haven’t noticed it before.

When the Magi came to Herod, he directed them to Bethlehem. It was probably about 2 years after the birth of Jesus. Matthew tells us the star took them to the house where Jesus was, but does not say where He was. I always thought they stayed in Bethlehem until that time, fled to Egypt to avoid the slaughter of innocents, then returned, going to Nazareth.

But Luke tells us after they completed the purification rituals (circumcised the eight day) they return to Nazareth, but doesn’t mention the flight to Egypt at all.

Just briefly thinking about it, it seems the only way to reconcile the passages is that they returned to Nazareth after 8 days. It was there the Magi came to offer gifts and from there they fled to Egypt.

Thanks for posting. Very interesting.

peace to you

There is no reason to suppose the men sent to Bethlehem were lead by that star to Nazareth in Galilee rather than Bethlehem in Judea. And further more coming back from Egypt was a fulfillment of a prophecy in the Law, per Hosea 11:1 based on the Law in Exodus 4:22-23 per Luke 2:39 and Matthew 2:15.

 

[canadyjd]

There is no reason to suppose the men sent to Bethlehem were lead by that star to Nazareth in Galilee rather than Bethlehem in Judea. And further more coming back from Egypt was a fulfillment of a prophecy in the Law, per Hosea 11:1 based on the Law in Exodus 4:22-23 per Luke 2:39 and Matthew 2:15.

How do you reconcile Luke’s account that they returned to Nazareth after the purification ritual (circumcise on the 8th day)?

peace to you

 

[Aaron]

How do you reconcile Luke’s account that they returned to Nazareth after the purification ritual (circumcise on the 8th day)?

peace to you

Mary's and the child's dedication and purification was a month-long process, Leviticus 12:4 ff

Also, is this a possible reading of Matthew 2:16?

Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time he questioned the wise men. - Mat 2:16 KJV
​

And if not, he didn't limit the slaughter to the boundaries of Bethlehem. Could he have tried to assure the murder of the child with a wider range of age?

 

[canadyjd]

Mary's and the child's dedication and purification was a month-long process, Leviticus 12:4 ff

Also, is this a possible reading of Matthew 2:16?

Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time he questioned the wise men. - Mat 2:16 KJV
​

And if not, he didn't limit the slaughter to the boundaries of Bethlehem. Could he have tried to assure the murder of the child with a wider range of age?

Ok, they returned to Nazareth a month after the birth.

If you are suggesting he didn’t get mad until two years after he spoke to the wise men, I don’t think so. The slaughter was confined to Bethlehem, according to scripture.

peace to you

 

[Aaron]

Ok, they returned to Nazareth a month after the birth.

At least a month, but it doesn't say they left immediately.

If you are suggesting he didn’t get mad until two years after he spoke to the wise men, I don’t think so. The slaughter was confined to Bethlehem, according to scripture.

peace to you[/QUOTE]Not just Bethlehem, but also the coasts thereof, meaning the surrounding areas as well.

If you are suggesting he didn’t get mad until two years after he spoke to the wise men, I don’t think so.

That's not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting Herod wasn't being precise. I'm saying it is likely he was very liberal with the age range in his command to ensure the child would be included in the selection. He didn't just say kill all the two-year-olds. He said kill all the boys two years old and younger.

 

[37818]

How do you reconcile Luke’s account that they returned to Nazareth after the purification ritual (circumcise on the 8th day)?

peace to you

Reconciling the two accunts are what this this thread is about. When they fulfilled Exodus 4:22-23 in fulfilling Hosea 11:1 that was how also "they had performed all things according to the law."

Furthermore, the wise men did not come to that house in Bethlehem until at least a year after Jesus was born.

 

[37818]

Some of the basic facts. Joseph, Mary and Jesus went to Egypt from Bethlehem. And it was from Egypt they returned to Nazareth.

 

[canadyjd]

At least a month, but it doesn't say they left immediately.

If you are suggesting he didn’t get mad until two years after he spoke to the wise men, I don’t think so. The slaughter was confined to Bethlehem, according to scripture.

peace to you

No, I’m suggesting the star appear the night Jesus was born. The Magi from the East (astronomers), saw the light and begin to study what it might mean. Eventually they came across the Jewish prophecy of a King being born to the Jews. They traveled, likely several months at a minimum, to the area and sought out King Herod to inquire.

According to Luke, Joseph and Mary had by that time returned to Nazareth. They were warned by an Angel to flee to Egypt after the visit from the Magi.

Herod realized the Magi had fled without returning to him and ordered the slaughter of innocents in Bethlehem because the prophecy stated the King of the Jews would be born there.

peace to you

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

The census must be figured in to this as well. Joseph and Mary didn’t go to Bethlehem for the natal healthcare. They couldn't just up and leave whenever. They had to be officially counted.

 

[canadyjd]

The census must be figured in to this as well. Joseph and Mary didn’t go to Bethlehem for the natal healthcare. They couldn't just up and leave whenever. They had to be officially counted.

Very good point

peace to you

 

[Aaron]

No, I’m suggesting the star appear the night Jesus was born. The Magi from the East (astronomers), saw the light and begin to study what it might mean. Eventually they came across the Jewish prophecy of a King being born to the Jews. They traveled, likely several months at a minimum, to the area and sought out King Herod to inquire.

According to Luke, Joseph and Mary had by that time returned to Nazareth. They were warned by an Angel to flee to Egypt after the visit from the Magi.

Herod realized the Magi had fled without returning to him and ordered the slaughter of innocents in Bethlehem because the prophecy stated the King of the Jews would be born there.

peace to you

My quote in the post you cited got jumbled up. I'm just saying a hard and fast timeline can't be derived by the rash command of a furious tyrant.

His commandment was designed to ensure the murder of his rival, extending beyond the borders of Bethlehem, and beyond the actual age of the child. (And he would have succeeded if Joseph hadn't been warned to flee.) And being uttered in a jealous fury, it's likely to have had an extreme margin of surety on the side opposite the youth of the child.

It's an assumption that the star appeared the night he was born. It's just as safe to assume that the appearance of the star portended the birth.

My point is that if harmonizing the accounts requires Christ to be very young, even a babe, when the Magi visited, there is nothing in the accounts to prevent that.

 

[Aaron]

The census must be figured in to this as well. Joseph and Mary didn’t go to Bethlehem for the natal healthcare. They couldn't just up and leave whenever. They had to be officially counted.

Good point.

 

[Aaron]

In addition, we're assuming the Magi to be coming from Babylon. If so, and if the star did appear at the time of His birth, it's only a four-month journey from Babylon to Jerusalem (Ezra 7:9). It may take even less time for a smaller group than Ezra's.

 

[37818]

My point is that if harmonizing the accounts requires Christ to be very young, even a babe, when the Magi appeared, there is nothing in the accounts to prevent that.

Two different times.

Luke 2:12, ". . . And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. . . ."

Two differnent places in Bethlehem.

Matthew 2:11, ". . . And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child . . . ."

Matthews account took place between, ". . . when they had performed all things according to the law . . ." and ". . . they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth. . . ."

Again the basic facts. Joseph, Mary and Jesus went from Bethlehem to Egypt. And they went from Egypt to Nazareth.

A further fulfillment of, ". . . when they had performed all things according to the law . . . ."

 

[Aaron]

Oh. You're saying that the flight to Egypt was part of, ". . . when they had performed all things according to the law . . . ."

I agree. It's either that or Luke simply omitted the account, because it wasn't pertinent to his history. The visit of the Magi would be significant to a devout and learned Jew looking for Messiah, but not necessary, and maybe even cumbersome to an audience primarily of gentiles.

 

[37818]

Oh. You're saying that the flight to Egypt was part of, ". . . when they had performed all things according to the law . . . ."

Absolutely. Luke, no doubt, should have known of Matthew's and Mark's accounts.