The Sabbath Rest

[Claudia_T]

I think that Christians are correct in saying that we need to trust in Jesus alone for our salvation.
However, that being said, the 7th Day Sabbath is a SIGN that we worship the true God who created the heavens and the earth, the CREATOR...


Ex:31:13: Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.



...and as the CREATOR, He is able to CREATE a clean heart in us and renew a right spirit in us, instead of we trying to do it ourselves.
Ps:51:10: Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.


The entire idea of God creating the heavens and the earth and then resting from His works, conveys this idea d we ourselves resting from our own works... and allowing God to sanctify us and t create a clean heart within us..one that loves Him and that keeps His law out of love and not out of trying to earn merit.


Heb:4:4: For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.



Heb:4:10: For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.






Phil:2:12,13: …work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


Claudia

 

[J. Jump]

Cluadia why are you persisting in a doctrine that is clearly not for you? You even use Scripture that clearly shows this to you.

You are correct in saying that it is a sign, but you are incorrectly applying it to you unless you are an unsaved Jew, which I don't think you are. Here is the Scripture again.

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Who is the sign between? It is between God and the children of Israel. You are not a member of the children of Israel. If you have placed your faith in the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus then you are neither Jew nor Greek, but rather one new man in Christ.

 

[Claudia_T]

same in new testament


The Sabbath has always been God's way of distinguishing Himself from all false gods:

"But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion." Jeremiah 10:10-12.


The Athenians were idolators who worshipped false gods, listen to how Paul in New Testament times explained the identity of the true God to them:

"For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;" Acts 17:23,24.


Listen again to what the apostles told the idolators at Lystra:

"And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein." Acts 14:15.(See also Revelation 10:6; 14:6, 7.)


In Old Testament times the patriarchs received the promises of God by grace:


"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all," Romans 4:16.


"Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the
just shall live by his faith." Habakkuk 2:4.

 

[BobRyan]

Christ our Creator Lord and Saviour says - Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" -- JJ insists that "Mankind" means "UNSAVED JEWS".

His eisegesis there is "instructive".

IN Isaiah 66 God Says "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship". JJ says "That means just UNSAVED JEWS".

His eisegesis there is astonishing!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Hope of Glory]

It's a comparison, not an absolute, much like saying that the church is made for man, not man for the church.

 

[BobRyan]

The Church made for MANKIND? Interesting statement that we do not find in scripture.

When Christ speaks pre-cross of the OT fact of the MAKING of mankind and the MAKING of Christ the Creator's Holy day - we see the MAKING of both in Gen 1-2:3. This would have been the context for the listeners as they all knew when these were MADE.

Christ points out that at the ORIGIN - the MAKING of them BOTH - the Sabbath is MADE for mankind.

That "sets the scope" at the origin to something bigger than "unsaved Jews".

The same is true for the "ALL MANKIND" scope that we see in Isaiah 66 for the predicted future. The scope remains unchanged between Origin and the future state!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[J. Jump]

BobRyan I see you are up to your same ole slander campaign.

JJ insists that "Mankind" means "UNSAVED JEWS".

Please show where I made this statement. If you can not then it is a lie. And according to your beliefs liars will not be in heaven. So you are going to have some issues to work through, because you have been spouting of lies about people throughout a number of threads.

 

[Claudia_T]

Unsaved Jews

BobRyan I see you are up to your same ole slander campaign.



Please show where I made this statement. If you can not then it is a lie. And according to your beliefs liars will not be in heaven. So you are going to have some issues to work through, because you have been spouting of lies about people throughout a number of threads.

JJump

You said to me:

"Cluadia why are you persisting in a doctrine that is clearly not for you? You even use Scripture that clearly shows this to you.

You are correct in saying that it is a sign, but you are incorrectly applying it to you unless you are an unsaved Jew, which I don't think you are. Here is the Scripture again.

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Who is the sign between? It is between God and the children of Israel. You are not a member of the children of Israel. If you have placed your faith in the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus then you are neither Jew nor Greek, but rather one new man in Christ."

...and since Jesus said the Sabbath was made for mankind, then isnt Bob correct in what he is saying that you are saying?

Maybe Im misunderstanding things but it doesnt seem to me like he's slandering you any :smilewinkgrin:

 

[J. Jump]

then isnt Bob correct in what he is saying that you are saying?

Absolutely not. Nowhere did I say nor insist that the Sabbath was for unsaved Jews. He purposefully misrepresents people's stands and twists their words so as to make them look foolish.

I would think this is very simple to see, but I guess not.

The verse that you quoted clearly tells us what the purpose for the Sabbath was. What BobRyan and you, if you believe the way he does, are doing is making verses compete with each other and therefore contradict each other.

That is an impossibility, because the Bible is Truth and Truth can not contradict itself. Why that is so hard for some of us to see is beyond me, when it really is simple.

We have so many on here that try to take the simple and make it complex and then accuse people of doing exactly what they are doing. It's really comical.

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

So we have to understand other Scripture regarding the Sabbath in light of this verse. The Sabbath was a sign. This verse right here tells us clearly that it was a sign between God and Israel. If it was between God and mankind then it would have said so.

The NT in I Corinthians clearly tell us that signs are for the Jews, specifically unbelieving Jews. That is different than a spiritually dead (BobRyan's unsaved) Jew.

Claudia I enjoy conversing with you, but I sure hope you can start to see through BobRyans chirades, because that is all they are.

 

[Claudia_T]

Sign and Seal

Absolutely not. Nowhere did I say nor insist that the Sabbath was for unsaved Jews. He purposefully misrepresents people's stands and twists their words so as to make them look foolish.

I would think this is very simple to see, but I guess not.

The verse that you quoted clearly tells us what the purpose for the Sabbath was. What BobRyan and you, if you believe the way he does, are doing is making verses compete with each other and therefore contradict each other.

That is an impossibility, because the Bible is Truth and Truth can not contradict itself. Why that is so hard for some of us to see is beyond me, when it really is simple.

We have so many on here that try to take the simple and make it complex and then accuse people of doing exactly what they are doing. It's really comical.

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

So we have to understand other Scripture regarding the Sabbath in light of this verse. The Sabbath was a sign. This verse right here tells us clearly that it was a sign between God and Israel. If it was between God and mankind then it would have said so.

The NT in I Corinthians clearly tell us that signs are for the Jews, specifically unbelieving Jews. That is different than a spiritually dead (BobRyan's unsaved) Jew.

Claudia I enjoy conversing with you, but I sure hope you can start to see through BobRyans chirades, because that is all they are.

I would regard the Sabbath being a "sign" more along these lines, I think:

Rom:4:11: And he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also

 

[J. Jump]

Claudia regardless of whether or not you view it associated with the sign of circumcision or not I Corinthians tells us that signs were for the Jews not Gentiles. Only Jews were circumcised or those that converted to Judaism.

 

[Claudia_T]

what is a sign

JJ

I dont understand what you mean by a sign. m wondering if you mean like when jesus said they were always asking for a sign when they shouldve had faith? Is that what you mean?

I believe in the case of the Sabbath ..it being a sign means that it is a "proof" that you worship the true God, the Creator. Like the "Mark of the Beast" verses the "Seal of God".


Rv:7:3: Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

and you know, Revelation 14:6-12 talks about the Mark of the beast being received in the forhead and hand. But God's people by contrast will keep the commandments.

Compare with Deut 6:
1: Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2: That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
3: Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4: Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6: And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8: And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

and we just read that SIGN and SEAL mean the same thing.
Rom:4:11: And he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also

 

[J. Jump]

Claudia I see what you are saying with the Sabbath and circumcision now. However the signs for Israel was things that pointed to a future event. The sign of the Sabbath is given so that Israel will be reminded that God worked six days to restore a ruined creation and then rested on the seventh day because it was complete, and He is again at work restoring a ruined creation in man and He will rest on the seventh day because His work will be complete again.

The sign of the Sabbah is pointing Israel to a coming day in the future. You can see the ties to this in the Gospel of John when a number of Jesus' signs were performed on the Sabbath day pointing to Israel's healing as a nation in the coming Sabbath.

I'm going to PM you some resource material.

 

[Claudia_T]

GOD Sanctifies us

JJ,

ok read this and it will help you understand what Im trying to say...

Too many Christians try to say that we are all trying to work our way to heaven because we keep the Sabbath. But God says the Sabbath is the SIGN that HE IS THE ONE WHO SANCTIFIES US AND MAKES US HOLY

But really it isnt that way at all, the Bible says that we are to be transformed by the renewing of our minds. And it is the Holy Spirit that does this transformation in us...

Rom:12:2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Ti:3:5: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost
But we have to believe that God will do as He promised and we also have to consent to allow the Holy Spirit to change us by convicting us of sin and then deciding to remove it when it is shown to us. Jn:16:8: And when he (The Holy Spirit) is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

That isnt working our way to Heaven, that is cooperating with God.

Phil:2:12,13: …work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
... thats why we realize God is our Creator who "creates in us a clean heart and renews a right spirit in us"...

Ezek:11:
25: Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26: A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27: And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

God is the one who "sanctifies us" and makes us hol, which is what the sign of the Sabbath signifies..
it's hardly works

 

[Claudia_T]

sabbath

JJ

NOOOOOOOOOOOO

the Bible tells us what the Sabbath is for... a sign that God is the one who sanctifies us...

Ex:31:13: Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

 

[J. Jump]

Claudia what does sanctify mean? Means set apart. Why was Israel set apart? Well they were supposed to be the head of the nations where all blessings were to flow to the Gentile nations.

This never happened, but it one day will happen. And it was the Lord that did this. Read the material that I PMed you.

You are still trying to make us responsible to the Sabbath, but that verse said it was for the nation of Israel and it was the Lord that sanctified those people.

Too many Christians try to say that we are all trying to work our way to heaven because we keep the Sabbath. But God says the Sabbath is the SIGN that HE IS THE ONE WHO SANCTIFIES US AND MAKES US HOLY

He is the one that sanctifies us, but this is not the Scripture to show that, because it is clearly for the nation of Israel not everyone at large.

 

[J. Jump]

But we have to believe that God will do as He promised and we also have to consent to allow the Holy Spirit to change us by convicting us of sin and then deciding to remove it when it is shown to us. Jn:16:8: And when he (The Holy Spirit) is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

That isnt working our way to Heaven, that is cooperating with God.

That is working your way to heaven though. You can try to put a good spin on it, but works are works are works. And Scripture tells us that we are not saved by our works. You even quoted a Scripture to show us that "Not by works of righteousness which we have done."

Our works do not enter into the picture of eternal salvation. They can't because that violates Scripture.

Now I believe all those Scriptures that you listed, but all of those Scriptures are written to people that are already saved. They are already believers. So that is all stuff that has to be done in a believers life not an unbelievers life.

 

[J. Jump]

God is the one who "sanctifies us" and makes us hol, which is what the sign of the Sabbath signifies

Again you are trying to make Scripture say something it doesn't say. It doesn't say sanctifies us it says sanctifies you which ties back to the nation of Israel.

 

[Claudia_T]

JJ

I dont see any PM message, Im new to this new set-up, where do I look to see if you PM-ed me?

 

[J. Jump]

Claudia up in the upper right-hand corner of the page it will say welcome Claudia_T in bold letters - tell you the last time you visited. Underneath that it will say Prviate Messages - Unread, Total. Click on the Private Message.

Took me a while to figure that one out as well. I liked the old system that something was flashing that said you had a message.