The SBC...and Slavery cont....

[HeirofSalvation]

Hold on..lemme get this straight:
According to you (Alvin) you are "just" an "old Baptist Preacher"....who was non-committal about his views on homosexuality in Baptist Churches or what he was convinced of with respect to what the Bible taught on such topics...and YET.....you were simultaneously:

I was invited to present a paper at this meeting of the greatest scientists of the world.

Universally respected as someone who would presumably represent the "Baptist" perspective to the............hold on.....your words:
........"greatest Scientists in the world"....
And I quote you.

Originally Posted by alvin
I was invited to present a paper at this meeting of the greatest scientists of the world.

How stupid do you think we are????
Obviously, you think we are VERY stupid...but that's not unusual.
This is all done in a thread specifically about "Slavery"....
not "SCIENCE"...were you invited as an expert in "Anthropology" or "Anthropological History" or as some form of "historian".........
(NONE of which exist in the "Scientific" community)
Yes....Your diatribe about the Anthropological history of SBC history...was listened to by again...I quote you:

greatest scientists of the world

By the way...it's more accurately the greatest scientists "IN" the world...not "OF" it.
Dude...next time you decide to troll a Baptist Forum...........don't pretend to be just a "humble old Baptist Preacher" (who inexplicably doesn't understand what the Scriptures teach about homosexuality)..and someone who was invited by the greatest minds in the "Scientific Community" to represent his findings about a "Sociological" topic......
BTW............"Scientists"....don't give a flying flip about "Anthropology" or "Sociology" or it's history...such as the SBC'S history with slavery...

I am sure you are fooling MANY here... You don't fool me...and I will be on you like white on rice...until they ban you.

What did you think I would say regarding the future of humanity? To take with them Scientologists, Roman Catholics, Baptist fundamentalists, Islamist, and all the rest and they will get along just fine. My paper was applauded by the scientific community,

damned by the religious. No surprise there

.

This is simply stupid...to what extent does the "Scientific Community" honestly care about your "Old Baptist Preacher" conclusions...about the Sociolgical Conclusions about the intersection between Caltholics, Islamic Fundamentalists, Baptist Fundamentalists, and as you yourself stated

"All the rest"

Yet...we are supposed to belive that "Alvin" is merely some "Old Baptist Preacher" (oblivious of the Scriptural teaching about homosexuality)......who created a paper "lauded by the Scientific Community"......which was roundly condemned or as you stated:

damned by the religious. No surprise there

.......Sounds like you had your opinion WELL in hand before you began your objective "Scientific" research of "religious" people...

Is religion contentious, divisive, and is used to subject people to others who have the power to do so?

You have no idea how much intelligent people (such as myself) have heard that particular assertion from relatively stupid people (such as yourself).....and we are bored with it. :sleep:
As an "Old Baptist Preacher"....I am sure you already know that the Scriptures use the word (in KJV) "religion" or "religious" a grand total of 7 times...and that in every instance it was negative...
(minus one reference in the book of James which you are unfamiliar with)...in which the word is used somewhat ambivalently...

I do not know.

No....*S..t*

What good is a sound mind if all you do is reflect the thoughts of others? If you dare to think critically about anything you will be condemned by those who do not

You DON'T think "critically" you godless liberal Christ-hating wolf....you have swallowed "hook line and sinker" EVERYTHING your God-less over-lords have asserted to you...
It's obvious to me...
You stick out like a sore thumb..you've swallowed the world-view of god-less heretics...and they have taught you to mindlessly preach that those who disagree with you don't think "critically"......Here's a hint genius:
I DO think "critically"...and I can smell your crap from MILES away....Seen it before...try a new line of attack.

 

[Amy.G]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
SLAM - DUNK


:thumbsup:

 

[saturneptune]

Heir,
As of late, I have been really tied up at work. This is the first time I have run across this guy, but congrats, you have him pegged. Sometimes we disagree on theology, but I think one thing we have in common is spotting a troll a mile away. One thing that you realize also, some pastors, leaders of our local New Testement churches, make some of the most bizarre theological statements on this board. Some pastors also call names that would get them kicked off the top of the steeple if they repeated their posts on Sunday morning.

I really do not know what the phrase "I am just an old Baptist preacher" means or signifies. Does that contrast him from a young Baptist preacher? I did not read the entire thread about slavery. There is really nothing to say about it. It is a thing of the past, as far as I am concerned, a concept from the pits of hell, but we got rid of it, which means we are a better people. Liberal apologists will use any tool to advance their kumbaya causes.

I commend you for making this person accountable until banning, but FYI, I have gotten one warning for my constant challanging a troll. (another one) Just be careful.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Sometimes we disagree on theology,

"MEEHH"...not that much...

but I think one thing we have in common is spotting a troll a mile away

.
Dude is a TOTAL troll.

I really do not know what the phrase "I am just an old Baptist preacher" means or signifies

.
No...he described himself as such in a previous thread wherein he claimed to not understand the "HATE" we Baptists have for homosexuals....in that thread... he painted himself as some "simple corn-pone 'Old Baptist Preacher' "...NOW...he wants us to believe that he speaks with authority to the "Greatest 'Scietific' minds" now extant and what-not...
In the words of any idiot back-woods corn-pone Baptist..."I'm dum...but, I'm not stupid"...and he is insulting our intelligence every which way...

He wants us to believe that his dissertations about Southern Baptists and "Slavery" are even within the confines of "Science" to begin with...(they aren't)....

He doesn't even have the right set of disciplines mapped out in his head..."Anthropology" isn't a "Science" it's a "Social science"...like history or anything else.... Yet he is the key-note in symposiums about the topic???
Come off it man....Real Christians ARE in the REAL Academic world...Men such as Alvin Plantinga have been the keynotes in the "Gilford Lectures" (he hasn't heard of them) several times...
PSSSHAAWW his pablum about "The World's Greatest Scientists"...
He described himself as just "an old Baptist Preacher"....only like 5 threads ago...and he thinks we are too stupid to make the connection. It's ridiculous.

I commend you for making this person accountable until banning

I truly pray...that they NEVER "Ban" this poster...so that I may expose his stupidity every time it arrises...he won't simply be "banned"...He'll stop posting before he is "banned" anyway, now that he's exposed...

 

[Oldtimer]

Alvin wrote:

I was invited to present a paper at this meeting of the greatest scientists of the world. What did you think I would say regarding the future of humanity?

As a pastor of a Baptist church, I would have expected you to say that the future of humanity rests in God's hands. Just as it did when humanity tried to build a tower to the heavens -- to the stars -- a long time ago.

To take with them Scientologists, Roman Catholics, Baptist fundamentalists, Islamist, and all the rest and they will get along just fine. My paper was applauded by the scientific community, damned by the religious. No surprise there.

As a pastor of a Baptist church, your words should have been damned when you said leave the word of God behind as a modern tower of Babel is being dreamed of by "scientists" and culturally elite who attended this conference.

BTW, were you compensated, at tax payer expense, for presenting your paper?

Is religion contentious, divisive, and is used to subject people to others who have the power to do so? Because I was selected many were angry...because they were not. I did not go to represent Southern Baptists, perhaps you would have. I do not know.

As a pastor of a Baptist church, you should know that you would face condemnation if you represented anything other than being a member of the body of Christ. As a pastor, you should have been representing HIM, first and foremost. Anything else would be a far distant second.

What good is a sound mind if all you do is reflect the thoughts of others? If you dare to think critically about anything you will be condemned by those who do not.

And you do not reflect the thoughts of others? Your own words tell a different story. Surely you reflected the thoughts of others when you said:
Quote: My paper was applauded by the scientific community, damned by the religious.

Were you invited, as a pastor, because this group knew your "critical thinking" was in alignment with theirs? You wondered if I would have represented Southern Baptists.

First, as a layman, I would not have been invited because a lowly AA behind my name doesn't account for much. Next, I would not have been invited because to the best of my ability I would have gone as a representative of Jesus Christ, my Saviour. Not to seek their applause and approval. Instead with the longing to one day hear these words.

Matthew 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

 

[alvin]

Glad I posted to a Christian site

Today I went back to read the comments regarding my original post. I was surprised a new new string was started. I have read every line of every comment and what surprises me the most is the angry posts. From a community of Christians you would think this would not be the case. Why is it there are certain questions that are not allowed to be raised? Traditions cannot be challenged, critical thinking is frowned upon, and everyone must reflect the major tenants of their faith...or else. Even this post I know will be taken apart and attacked piecemeal.

 

[Bronconagurski]

Today I went back to read the comments regarding my original post. I was surprised a new new string was started. I have read every line of every comment and what surprises me the most is the angry posts. From a community of Christians you would think this would not be the case. Why is it there are certain questions that are not allowed to be raised? Traditions cannot be challenged, critical thinking is frowned upon, and everyone must reflect the major tenants of their faith...or else. Even this post I know will be taken apart and attacked piecemeal.

Awwww, poor little carpet bagger got caught in his deceit. Now he wants to cry to mama.

 

[Zaac]

Today I went back to read the comments regarding my original post. I was surprised a new new string was started. I have read every line of every comment and what surprises me the most is the angry posts. From a community of Christians you would think this would not be the case. Why is it there are certain questions that are not allowed to be raised? Traditions cannot be challenged, critical thinking is frowned upon, and everyone must reflect the major tenants of their faith...or else. Even this post I know will be taken apart and attacked piecemeal.

Don't take it personally Dr. A. There are some "nasty" personalities in here. You pose the questions that you want to ask and the folks who want to respond without making it personal will. While others will make you instead of what you said into the villain. Happy posting and don't let the devil, no matter how he masquerades, steal your joy.:thumbs:

And I must say, this thread probably should not have been allowed because it seems to have been started as a continuing vehicle to now come at you after the other thread was closed.

 

[alvin]

Thanks Zac. Last night, at our prayer meeting, we were discussing some of comments made on this board and I mentioned to them that some times people will criticize me in kindest and most meaningful ways. We can be critical without causing harm. It is comments like yours that make it worth the effort to work as hard as I can and to think as clearly as I can for as long as I can.

 

[12strings]

Today I went back to read the comments regarding my original post. I was surprised a new new string was started. I have read every line of every comment and what surprises me the most is the angry posts. From a community of Christians you would think this would not be the case. Why is it there are certain questions that are not allowed to be raised? Traditions cannot be challenged, critical thinking is frowned upon, and everyone must reflect the major tenants of their faith...or else. Even this post I know will be taken apart and attacked piecemeal.

Still wondering why you won't specifically answer the objections given, rather than just post general statements like this one....

 

[Oldtimer]

Don't take it personally Dr. A. There are some "nasty" personalities in here. You pose the questions that you want to ask and the folks who want to respond without making it personal will. While others will make you instead of what you said into the villain. Happy posting and don't let the devil, no matter how he masquerades, steal your joy. :thumbs:

And I must say, this thread probably should not have been allowed because it seems to have been started as a continuing vehicle to now come at you after the other thread was closed.

Zaac, as a member of the body of Christ, do you agree with Dr. A's words? Have you read what he has presented as his position?

Interesting, when I went to his web site to once again quote from his paper, it's no longer on his site. If memory serves, the welcome page title was Science and Religion.

Search engine hasn't updated yet. Yahoo shows this.

Starships and Religion, a bad idea
Presented at the 2012 100 Year Starship Symposium. Title: The Non-Promise of Earth Bound Religions into Space. Rev. Dr. Alvin L. Carpenter. Pastor, First Southern ...
www.alvincarpenter.com - Cached

Clicking on the link now takes you to a promo of his book.

Now it's "Southern Baptists, the Bible and Slavery". And a second book has been added. "From Missionary to Mercenary: How the Church Went From Pacifism to Militancy and Why it SHould Return."

Anyway, found it from another source:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-Non-promise-of-Earth-b-by-Alvin-Carpenter-P-120920-409.html

Presentation: 2012 100YSS Symposium

Rev. Dr. Alvin L. Carpenter
Pastor, First Southern Baptist Church West Sacramento CA

Title: The Non-promise of Earth bound Religions into Space.

Ask any representative of an earth religion, "Why should we carry your religion to the stars." With the terrible history of religion, and the terrible acts carried out today under the banner of religion it is a very valid question"why should you come to the stars? Then ask again and again until you find the true answer: The goal of religion is to convert and impose. That is the task of all religions otherwise they would disappear in a generation. In Christianity it is called the Great Commission: " Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:19-20.

Today, I would like to pose for your consideration, in the strongest terms possible, that our earth religions are not only nonessential for a interstellar community but are in fact detrimental to the success and well being of a Colonized Interstellar Vessel. One charismatic fundamentalist of any religion will be enough to destroy the entire ship.

------------
I have pastored for 40 years and there is nothing I have done that could have not been done by an atheist.

-----------
I laugh when I see a Christian debate an atheist; I laugh because the Christian shakes the hand of the atheist, smiles and is kind and generous but I know that the Christian believes, and teaches others, that that atheist, along with all others like him/her, is going to burn in hell for all eternity. Which of the two, the atheist or the Christian, is disingenuous? Again, history and current events, underscore that fact of inherent exclusiveness earth religions. It is always us vs. them.

-----------
The moderates condemn the extreme but they never repudiate their holy books from which extreme behavior arises. On a starship, a space colony, an interstellar community, all it takes is one charismatic fundamentalist who believes these same books to be the authoritative Word of God to destroy the entire community!

-----------
Arguments for exclusion:

1. Earth bound religions have a long history of being anti-science and anti- scientists.

------------

Anyone that has as a component of their religious faith the idea that God only accepts heterosexuality as THE norm, and any and all other orientations are sinful and evil is not worthy to be on a starship that might be humanity's' last hope.

Zaac, those are a few quotes from the 4 page presentation. I urge you to read the whole thing.

Do you still give him a thumbs up? Especially since he is the shepherd of an assembly of members of the body of Christ.

 

[alvin]

Are you sure...

What makes you think Zac agrees with my position? He is secure in what he believes so no matter what I have written he does not feel threatened.

 

[Zaac]

Zaac, as a member of the body of Christ, do you agree with Dr. A's words? Have you read what he has presented as his position?

Interesting, when I went to his web site to once again quote from his paper, it's no longer on his site. If memory serves, the welcome page title was Science and Religion.

Search engine hasn't updated yet. Yahoo shows this.


Clicking on the link now takes you to a promo of his book.

Now it's "Southern Baptists, the Bible and Slavery". And a second book has been added. "From Missionary to Mercenary: How the Church Went From Pacifism to Militancy and Why it SHould Return."

Anyway, found it from another source:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-Non-promise-of-Earth-b-by-Alvin-Carpenter-P-120920-409.html



Zaac, those are a few quotes from the 4 page presentation. I urge you to read the whole thing.

Do you still give him a thumbs up? Especially since he is the shepherd of an assembly of members of the body of Christ.

Old Timer, I'd say go look at the other thread if you want to know where I stand on what Dr. A said. A lot of folks on here are just so quick to vilify anyone who doesn't hold the same position that they do.

 

[Oldtimer]

Old Timer, I'd say go look at the other thread if you want to know where I stand on what Dr. A said. A lot of folks on here are just so quick to vilify anyone who doesn't hold the same position that they do.

Zaac, I went back and read every word you wrote in the other thread and this one.

This comment still stands out.

Originally Posted by Zaac
Don't take it personally Dr. A. There are some "nasty" personalities in here. You pose the questions that you want to ask and the folks who want to respond without making it personal will. While others will make you instead of what you said into the villain. Happy posting and don't let the devil, no matter how he masquerades, steal your joy. :thumbsup:

And I must say, this thread probably should not have been allowed because it seems to have been started as a continuing vehicle to now come at you after the other thread was closed.

On the one hand you give a thumbs up to a pastor who is teaching, that God and the Bible should be left behind by NASA, to continue to do so here. Thumbs up to a pastor who is using the past to bring about more discord among the members of the body of Christ. A pastor who is using the might of his pen to divide brethern based on skin color. I noticed that you did stand against his teachings in the other thread.

You tell him, in essence, to keep on posting what so many stand against. Yet on the other hand, in the very same post, you state that others "probably should not have been allowed" to continue.

Zaac, the choice is yours, not mine to use the :thumbsup: whenever you please. So, in closing, I'll just ask you one more question. In your opinion:

If Pastor Alvin Carpenter had setup a table in the Temple to hawk his books along with copies of the speech he gave at NASA (his speech was on his web site until a day or so ago), would Jesus Christ have overturned his table, too?

As for me, I cannot give a :thumbsup: to any man who recommends discarding the Bible in lieu of a "space-born religion is going to be based on science,".

 

[alvin]

Dissent and the Reformation

What I find interesting from these posts is that many forget that if it were not for dissent there would have been no Reformation and we would all still be genuflecting before papal authorities. Baptists came from dissent and anytime we exclude all dissent (and those who allow them to be heard) we are claiming we have arrived. As we all know the Christian faith is a constant journey and we "arrive" when Jesus returns to us or we return to Him. Otherwise, out task is to interpret Jesus to the age in which we live. Again, of course Zaac does not agree with me but...we does not fear dissent. Why should he?

 

[Bronconagurski]

What I find interesting from these posts is that many forget that if it were not for dissent there would have been no Reformation and we would all still be genuflecting before papal authorities. Baptists came from dissent and anytime we exclude all dissent (and those who allow them to be heard) we are claiming we have arrived. As we all know the Christian faith is a constant journey and we "arrive" when Jesus returns to us or we return to Him. Otherwise, out task is to interpret Jesus to the age in which we live. Again, of course Zaac does not agree with me but...we does not fear dissent. Why should he?

Don't disgrace the real men that put their life on the line for the word of God by comparing what you do to them. You have nothing in common. They stood up for the word of God, while you throw it under the bus. Y'all are diametrically opposed, and you are the type that the scriptures warn about imo. You have no love for the scriptures by your own admission, so, you, sir, are a fraud that calls yourself a preacher and tries to make merchandise off of people.

 

[Zaac]

Zaac, I went back and read every word you wrote in the other thread and this one.

This comment still stands out.


On the one hand you give a thumbs up to a pastor who is teaching, that God and the Bible should be left behind by NASA, to continue to do so here. Thumbs up to a pastor who is using the past to bring about more discord among the members of the body of Christ. A pastor who is using the might of his pen to divide brethern based on skin color. I noticed that you did stand against his teachings in the other thread.

You tell him, in essence, to keep on posting what so many stand against. Yet on the other hand, in the very same post, you state that others "probably should not have been allowed" to continue.

Why are we even having this discussion?:laugh: I stated that he shouldn't be vilified because of his position. If his position is wrong, call it that and leave it at that.

This thread has been filled with a bunch of personal attacks against him because of what his stance was in the other thread.

I believe that he is wrong on this issue. But that's not reason to treat him as less than a Brother in Christ. THAT's what I'm speaking to.

Many on here supported Mitt Romney, a man who in every part of his core goes against Jesus Christ. I don't recall any of those treating each other in such a way. Why? The why is because they were in agreement.

But anyone who did not agree was treated the same way Dr. A is now being treated.

As I've said repeatedly in the past, there are several people on here who can be pretty nasty if your viewpoint is not the same as theirs. They start to ignore what was said and start with the personal attacks.

Zaac, the choice is yours, not mine to use the :thumbsup: whenever you please. So, in closing, I'll just ask you one more question. In your opinion:

If Pastor Alvin Carpenter had setup a table in the Temple to hawk his books along with copies of the speech he gave at NASA (his speech was on his web site until a day or so ago), would Jesus Christ have overturned his table, too?

His table would have been overturned just like all the other vendors. I don't think Dr. A would refute this.

As for me, I cannot give a :thumbsup: to any man who recommends discarding the Bible in lieu of a "space-born religion is going to be based on science,".

Why would I give him a thumbsup? That's my point. He stated his views. Why are we giving him a thumbsup or down as opposed to his views? I just question why the people on this board are so quick to personally attack anyone who does not hold the same stance as they do?