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The seven churches

J. Jump

New Member
BGTF I believe much of what you have said in your last post, but the biggest area of disagreement would be that this "newness" grows without exception.

I think it "should" grow, but again our maturation is not a guarantee. We should grow up in the Lord day by day, even moment by moment, but it is not guaranteed that we will unfortunately.

I like you believe the Bible teaches there is a better way and that is by looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith. But if we don't look He's not going to finish. We have the Power to overcome the bondage to sin, but we have to plug oursleves into that Power source. That Power is not automatic.

And you are exactly right that this has been an issue over time.
 
J. Jump said:
BGTF I believe much of what you have said in your last post, but the biggest area of disagreement would be that this "newness" grows without exception.

I think it "should" grow, but again our maturation is not a guarantee. We should grow up in the Lord day by day, even moment by moment, but it is not guaranteed that we will unfortunately.
JJ

If it truly is alive, it MUST grow, for growth is the sign of life. If it doesn't grow, what it means is that someone is hanging fruit on a dead tree to give the appearance of life, the Bible has a very strong condemnatory word for that.

I must admit however, that the rate of growth can sometimes be very slow, and hence some of the troubles we may have trying to determine if there really is life.


BGTF
 

J. Jump

New Member
If it truly is alive, it MUST grow, for growth is the sign of life. If it doesn't grow, what it means is that someone is hanging fruit on a dead tree to give the appearance of life, the Bible has a very strong condemnatory word for that.
Well James certainly seems to indicate that it can be "dead" and not growing.

Now I could agree that it is growing just because something that is alive does grow, but just because it grows does not mean it matures. A baby will "grow" I suppose if you just feed them milk, but at somepoint if that baby does not move past the milk it will not develop properly and would probably even die.

I guess the bottom line of what I'm trying to say is that not "all" saved people are going to be found acceptable when they stand at the JSOC and there will be consequences that they must face at that time for their lack of growth.

And it is this lack of understanding and false teaching regarding the JSOC that causes people not to care about their growth or think they are growing when really they aren't.
 

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
I believe John Macarthur nailed the 7 churches...

"Now listen very carefully to what I say. These are seven real churches. They really existed. They existed in those cities that they're stated to exist in. And if you study the letters in detail you find that each letter fits the historical cultural geographical context of the city to which it was written. It's a literal city. But they are also representative churches because each one of them has a unique character all its own and it represents churches of all times because each of them is a special kind of church. And in all the periods of the history of the church there have always been these kinds of churches. And each of them gets a special message from the Lord. So this is His ministry, as it were, to the church age.

The first one is to Ephesus. What kind of church is Ephesus? It is the church that is orthodox in doctrine, but cold. It's left its first love. Verse 4, "I have somewhat against you because you've left your first love." Verse 5, "Remember therefore from where you are fallen, repent and do the first works." Now this is the church that's orthodox. I mean, they have the right doctrine. Verse 2 it says they couldn't bear evil people, they couldn't bear false apostles and teachers. And they endured faithful to the sound doctrine but they lost their love. They were cold and orthodox. Now that kind of church has existed in every age and does today. Those who have got the right message they're just cold and indifferent about it.

The second church we meet is the Smyrna church, verses 8 to 11. This is the church that suffers persecution. And in verse 10 it says, "None of those things...fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer. Behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, you may be tried. You shall have tribulation ten days..." ten days signifies a brief period of time..."be faithful unto death and I'll give you a crown of life." Nothing negative is said against this church. Why? Because a church under persecution will always be a pure church, it's purged by the persecution. People who are just showing up for whatever reason once persecution starts get out. Cause if they don't have anything to die for, they're not going to stay around and get killed in the massacre. So this is the church under persecution. And at all periods of the church's history there have been those churches and there are such churches today. We're going to hear about one in the service following tonight when we hear Georgi Vins tell us about the church in Soviet Union.

The third letter is written to the church in the town of Pergamum, or Pergamos. And this is in chapter 2 verse 12 through 17 and this is the church married to the world. This is the worldly church. And he describes their worldliness down through verse 15 and then in verse 16 he says, "Repent, or else I'll come unto thee quickly and fight against them with the sword of My mouth." This is the church Christ fights against, the church that is married to the world. And in all periods of the church's history there are worldly churches where the people don't come out from the world, where they cater to the world, where they accommodate the world, where they go along with everything that's happening in society.

Then the Lord has a message to a fourth kind of church represented by the Thyatira assembly in chapter 2 verse 18 to 29. Thyatira is the church that tolerates sin. In this particular church they tolerated a Jezebel-like woman who was seducing servants to commit fornication and eat things sacrificed to idols. And so they're warned because they're a church that tolerates sin, a church that wouldn't discipline sin, a church that wouldn't purify its ranks. And there are always churches like that.

And then in chapter 3 we're introduced to the fifth church, Sardis. Easy to see what was wrong in this church. Verse 1 says, "Thou hast a name that thou livest and art dead." This is the dead church...just dead. And it had a few things that were living, verse 2 says, but they were also ready to die...a dead church. You've seen such, maybe you came from one. Nothing happening, no life, no growth, no productivity, no fruit, no joy.

And then number 6, chapter 3:7 to 13, the church at Philadelphia. This is the faithful church. It says in verse 8 at the end, "You have kept My Word, have not denied My name." This is a church that had an open door and went through it. You might even see it as a missionary church. And so it is a faithful church and there are always those kind.

And then the final of the seven comes in chapter 3 verse 14 to the end of the chapter. That whole section deals with Laodicea, the apostate church, the unsaved church, the church of liberalism today. So, you see, each of these has a message. By the way, that church is characterized in verse 15, "I know thy works that thou art neither cold nor hot, I would thou weren't cold or hot, I wish you either against Me or for Me, He says, but because you're neutral in the middle I'll spew you out of My mouth. A rejected false church."

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/GC1290.HTM
 
J. Jump said:
Well James certainly seems to indicate that it can be "dead" and not growing.

I agree that 'dead' and 'not growing' mean the same thing.

Now I could agree that it is growing just because something that is alive does grow, but just because it grows does not mean it matures. A baby will "grow" I suppose if you just feed them milk, but at somepoint if that baby does not move past the milk it will not develop properly and would probably even die.

So let's move past the milk.

I guess the bottom line of what I'm trying to say is that not "all" saved people are going to be found acceptable when they stand at the JSOC and there will be consequences that they must face at that time for their lack of growth.

And it is this lack of understanding and false teaching regarding the JSOC that causes people not to care about their growth or think they are growing when really they aren't.

To determine if this is correct, I might need to cut into your tree to determine whether the sap is truly running, or if the fruit is merely hung on a dead tree, are you open to that?

If so, I would like to ask for no interruptions from others until this can be properly determined.


BGTF
 

J. Jump

New Member
So let's move past the milk.
AMEN! But folks these days don't want to move past the milk. And the folks that do can't agree what the meat and the strong meat of the Word are.

To determine if this is correct, I might need to cut into your tree to determine whether the sap is truly running, or if the fruit is merely hung on a dead tree, are you open to that?
If you need to see if anything that I say is correct or not you need just go to the Scriptures. What I say matters not. The ONLY thing that matters is what does Scripture say about the matter.

Frankly you are talking about trying to do something that only God can do. You can't cut me open and see into my heart. Only God an do that. You can view my fruit and determine whether or not I am a false teacher, but that's about as far as you can go :).

By the way no interuptions is an impossibility on this board :) at least as far as I have seen. That's why I have offered on NUMEROUS occasions for folks to take discussions offline, because threads take off in so many different directions so quickly it's not even funny, ESPECIALLY when dealing with the meat and strong meat of the Word!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Frankly you are talking about trying to do something that only God can do. You can't cut me open and see into my heart. Only God an do that. You can view my fruit and determine whether or not I am a false teacher, but that's about as far as you can go :).

Ah, yes God can do it, nay He will do it, I will just do the typing for Him.

By the way no interuptions is an impossibility on this board at least as far as I have seen. That's why I have offered on NUMEROUS occasions for folks to take discussions offline, because threads take off in so many different directions so quickly it's not even funny, ESPECIALLY when dealing with the meat and strong meat of the Word!

I think we should be able to trust them to meet one small request.


Getting started.

Repeating some earlier questions:

Will you spend the 1000 years after the JSOC in the lake of fire or not?

How did you arrive at your answer?


BGTF
 

J. Jump

New Member
Ah, yes God can do it, nay He will do it, I will just do the typing for Him.
I really have no idea what you are getting at here. Do you honestly think you are an "instrument" that God is going to use to see into someone's heart?

I think we should be able to trust them to meet one small request.
You have more faith than I do :laugh:.

Will you spend the 1000 years after the JSOC in the lake of fire or not?
That is a question that can not be answered with 100% accuracy, because it could change.

How did you arrive at your answer?
Because the final analysis is not until after my race is over and since I'm still breathing and typing my race isn't over yet. Who knows if I will finish or not. I hope and pray that I will!
 
J. Jump said:
I really have no idea what you are getting at here. Do you honestly think you are an "instrument" that God is going to use to see into someone's heart?
It has happened before, I believe it can happen again. Just bear with me, and see if it does.

That is a question that can not be answered with 100% accuracy, because it could change.
What would change it?

Because the final analysis is not until after my race is over and since I'm still breathing and typing my race isn't over yet. Who knows if I will finish or not. I hope and pray that I will!
What then is your understanding of this verse?
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

And this one?
1 Thess 1:10, 5:9 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come....9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


BGTF
 

J. Jump

New Member
What then is your understanding of this verse?
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

It seems rather evident to me. The author and his readers were not of those that draw back unto perdition, but were of those that believed to the saving of their souls.

And this one?
1 Thess 1:10, 5:9 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come....9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Again it seems rather obvious to me as you highlighted and underline the key word. It is the author and his readers that were not appointed to wrath, but to obtain salvation.

Wonder what salvation already "saved" folks still had to obtain?

The problem is that Christendom tries to write itself into almost all passages regardless of audience. They think if a saved person is mentioned then that passage relates to "all" saved people regardless of anything else in their lives and that's simply not the case.
 
J. Jump said:
[/B][/I]
It seems rather evident to me. The author and his readers were not of those that draw back unto perdition, but were of those that believed to the saving of their souls.


Again it seems rather obvious to me as you highlighted and underline the key word. It is the author and his readers that were not appointed to wrath, but to obtain salvation.

Wonder what salvation already "saved" folks still had to obtain?

The problem is that Christendom tries to write itself into almost all passages regardless of audience. They think if a saved person is mentioned then that passage relates to "all" saved people regardless of anything else in their lives and that's simply not the case.


Just so I get this straight, are you trying to tell me that YOU personally have not been delivered from the wrath to come?


BGTF
 
ByGracethroughFaith said:
Just so I get this straight, are you trying to tell me that YOU personally have not been delivered from the wrath to come?


BGTF

JJump
Are you trying to tell me that YOU personally have not been delivered from the wrath to come?


BGTF
 

J. Jump

New Member
BGTF sorry for the delay in getting back with you. I have had some MAJOR fires to put out with my business over the last few days even though I have logged on to read some threads I haven't been able to answer much if any.

Anywho the text does not say that they have been delivered, but that they were not appointed. I'm not appointed unto wrath, but unto a salvation that awaits at the end of my faith according to I or II Peter I can't remember which right now off the top of my head.

However I can not escape God's judgment whether I am a good servant or a bad servant. And there are consequences for whichever I choose to be. If I choose to die to self and allow the Holy Spirit to work in and through me then I will hear well done My good and faithful servant. If I choose to live for self and not allow the Holy Spirit to work in my life I will not only not hear those words, but I will be paid according to my labors.

The reward at the JSOC is not all positive. There will be some not so positive rewards handed out as well as suffering loss.

Hope that helps!
 
J. Jump said:
BGTF sorry for the delay in getting back with you. I have had some MAJOR fires to put out with my business over the last few days even though I have logged on to read some threads I haven't been able to answer much if any.

Anywho the text does not say that they have been delivered, but that they were not appointed. I'm not appointed unto wrath, but unto a salvation that awaits at the end of my faith according to I or II Peter I can't remember which right now off the top of my head.

However I can not escape God's judgment whether I am a good servant or a bad servant. And there are consequences for whichever I choose to be. If I choose to die to self and allow the Holy Spirit to work in and through me then I will hear well done My good and faithful servant. If I choose to live for self and not allow the Holy Spirit to work in my life I will not only not hear those words, but I will be paid according to my labors.

The reward at the JSOC is not all positive. There will be some not so positive rewards handed out as well as suffering loss.

Hope that helps!

JJump

Here is the text
1 Thess 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Before we can go further, it is crucial that you answer this question.

Have you, or have you not been delivered from the wrath to come?


BGTF
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
BGTF--Will you spend the 1000 years after the JSOC in the lake of fire or not?
J.Jump--That is a question that can not be answered with 100% accuracy, because it could change.
BGTF--How did you arrive at your answer?
J.Jump--Because the final analysis is not until after my race is over and since I'm still breathing and typing my race isn't over yet. Who knows if I will finish or not. I hope and pray that I will!
By this conversation, J.Jump, you demonstrate that:
1. You have no assurance of salvation.
2. a denial of eternal life (eternal life does not stop for a thousand years or else it could not be eternal).
3. a denial of the sufficiency of the blood of Christ to atone for all of your sins.

With these conclusions, one can only assume that your doctrine is indeed heresy.
 

J. Jump

New Member
By this conversation, J.Jump, you demonstrate that:
1. You have no assurance of salvation.
2. a denial of eternal life (eternal life does not stop for a thousand years or else it could not be eternal).
3. a denial of the sufficiency of the blood of Christ to atone for all of your sins.
And with this post DHK you continue to prove that one you either still don't have a clue as to what we are "really" talking about or two that you do and you don't care and are just interested in espousing falsities in order to keep people from studying out for themselves.

Everlasting life (eternal salvation as some call it - grace through faith apart from works) is ABSOLUTELY secure. BobRyan will back me up on this as he and I have gone round and round about the issue of eternal security. Your "gift" of everlasting life is something that can NEVER be taken away and it is something that can NEVER be forfeited. Scripture is rather plain in this teaching.

I don't deny eternal life at all. I just use the Scriptural definition of "eternal" and not man's definition. Eternal is aionios in the Greek and no one has ever been able to show that it means without end and/or without beginning and without end. And I have asked for a few months now.

The word is an adjective that comes from aion, which means age. An age definitely has a beginning and it definitely have an end. So if you want to continue to think that you "eternal" life that is "supposed" to last forever and ever and ever is aionios then you are more than welcome to that belief. However I believe the life that God "gave" me is everlasting and not aionios.

I don't know how many times I have answered your third response and I know you have read my responses, but you just keep on keep'in on with the nonsense that you are espousing here (that should be a hint as to whether you have a clue or not and what your intentions are by the way).

Christ's blood is ABSOLUTELY/PERFECTLY sufficient. However just becuase Christ's blood is ABSOLUTELY/PERFECTLY "capable" of something does NOT mean it is also 100% guaranteed to carry out that capability.

I John 1:9 - IF we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us.

I'm not sure why folks want to act as though that little word does not exist in the text. It does and it's there for a reason.

It means we can not confess. And if we don't our sins will not be forgiven. Thefore even though Christ's blood is ABSOLUTELY and PERFECTLY capable of covering my sin it's not going to if I don't confess.

Now maybe this time you will want to address my question that no one else has cared to address and that is why do I have to confess something for forgiveness that God has supposedly already forgiven? That makes ZERO sense.

If I have to confess something to be forgiven which has already been forgiven that means the first time wasn't good enough. That is NOT the description of a PERFECT God.
 
J. Jump said:
And with this post DHK you continue to prove that one you either still don't have a clue as to what we are "really" talking about or two that you do and you don't care and are just interested in espousing falsities in order to keep people from studying out for themselves.

Everlasting life (eternal salvation as some call it - grace through faith apart from works) is ABSOLUTELY secure. BobRyan will back me up on this as he and I have gone round and round about the issue of eternal security. Your "gift" of everlasting life is something that can NEVER be taken away and it is something that can NEVER be forfeited. Scripture is rather plain in this teaching.

I don't deny eternal life at all. I just use the Scriptural definition of "eternal" and not man's definition. Eternal is aionios in the Greek and no one has ever been able to show that it means without end and/or without beginning and without end. And I have asked for a few months now.

The word is an adjective that comes from aion, which means age. An age definitely has a beginning and it definitely have an end. So if you want to continue to think that you "eternal" life that is "supposed" to last forever and ever and ever is aionios then you are more than welcome to that belief. However I believe the life that God "gave" me is everlasting and not aionios.

I don't know how many times I have answered your third response and I know you have read my responses, but you just keep on keep'in on with the nonsense that you are espousing here (that should be a hint as to whether you have a clue or not and what your intentions are by the way).

Christ's blood is ABSOLUTELY/PERFECTLY sufficient. However just becuase Christ's blood is ABSOLUTELY/PERFECTLY "capable" of something does NOT mean it is also 100% guaranteed to carry out that capability.

I John 1:9 - IF we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us.

I'm not sure why folks want to act as though that little word does not exist in the text. It does and it's there for a reason.

It means we can not confess. And if we don't our sins will not be forgiven. Thefore even though Christ's blood is ABSOLUTELY and PERFECTLY capable of covering my sin it's not going to if I don't confess.

Now maybe this time you will want to address my question that no one else has cared to address and that is why do I have to confess something for forgiveness that God has supposedly already forgiven? That makes ZERO sense.

If I have to confess something to be forgiven which has already been forgiven that means the first time wasn't good enough. That is NOT the description of a PERFECT God.

JJump

Back on topic.

Here is the text
1 Thess 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Before we can go further, it is crucial that you answer this question.

Have you, or have you not been delivered from the wrath to come?


BGTF
 

J. Jump

New Member
JJump

Back on topic.

Here is the text
1 Thess 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Before we can go further, it is crucial that you answer this question.

Have you, or have you not been delivered from the wrath to come?
Sorry BGTF I totally missed your post. And I guess we were talking about a different verse.

The verse that you have put forward is interesting in that just reading the "English" translation of the text one would think this "deliverance" has "already" taken place. It reads as if the action has taken place in the past.

However the verb is a "present" tense verb not a past tense verb. Jesus "is delieving" us from the wrath to come.

And this deliverance is not for all people. Paul makes it very clear who the "us" is in the preceeding verses. A lot of people in Christendom think that if Paul says something of himself or other faithful believers that it applies to "all" believers, but that simply is not the case.

I do however believe that I am currrently being delivered from the wrath to come, however that is not guaranteed to continue.

Hope that helps!
 
J. Jump said:
Sorry BGTF I totally missed your post. And I guess we were talking about a different verse.

The verse that you have put forward is interesting in that just reading the "English" translation of the text one would think this "deliverance" has "already" taken place. It reads as if the action has taken place in the past.

However the verb is a "present" tense verb not a past tense verb. Jesus "is delieving" us from the wrath to come.

And this deliverance is not for all people. Paul makes it very clear who the "us" is in the preceeding verses. A lot of people in Christendom think that if Paul says something of himself or other faithful believers that it applies to "all" believers, but that simply is not the case.

I do however believe that I am currrently being delivered from the wrath to come, however that is not guaranteed to continue.

Hope that helps!

JJ

What you are telling me that you think there might be plans for your adoption, but that you have not yet been adopted as a child of God. Is this true?

Rom 8:15-16 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Gal 4:6-7 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.


BGTF
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
J. Jump said:
And with this post DHK you continue to prove that one you either still don't have a clue as to what we are "really" talking about or two that you do and you don't care and are just interested in espousing falsities in order to keep people from studying out for themselves.

Everlasting life (eternal salvation as some call it - grace through faith apart from works) is ABSOLUTELY secure. BobRyan will back me up on this as he and I have gone round and round about the issue of eternal security. Your "gift" of everlasting life is something that can NEVER be taken away and it is something that can NEVER be forfeited. Scripture is rather plain in this teaching.
BobRyan is hardly a good ally in this subject area as he is SDA, believes in the annihilation of the wicked, and when it comes to Rev.20:10--"and the beast and the false prophet shall be cast into the lake of fire where the devil and his angels are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.
--Bob denies that they will be tormented forever and ever.
He denies the everlasting punishment of the wicked.
Do you also accept this same heresy as he believes?

Eternal means eternal or everlasting, without end. It does not mean: eternal minus one thousand years, and then resume eternal again. It does not mean eternal life received; eternal life lost; eternal life regained. It simply means: the gift of God is eternal life without any conditions attached.
I don't deny eternal life at all. I just use the Scriptural definition of "eternal" and not man's definition. Eternal is aionios in the Greek and no one has ever been able to show that it means without end and/or without beginning and without end. And I have asked for a few months now.
Yes it is ainoios. So what! Does that give you the perogative of making up your "J.Jump" definition contrary to every other translation. Do you know better than all 54 of the KJV translators and all of the other MV's that have come out since? That is some arrogance, JJ! Now what does the word really mean?
aiwnioV aionios ahee-o'-nee-os
from 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
Well, what do you know!! J.Jump's definition of "eternal" or aioniios is not found in the most simple of Lexicons--Strong's. This is really basic. J.J. just makes up his own definitions to suit his own theology. Quite deceitful isn't it! Eternal means forever and vice-versa. It means without end. This is the word used in the most famous verse in the Bible--John 3:16, from whence I took the word.

Now let's see how this word is used in another context:
1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

With your definition J.Jump you have just committed the heresy that God is not eternal. You deny his eternality by limiting the word to an age. God will only exist for an age and then cease to exist because that is your limited definition of everlasting. The same word "aionios" is used.
So take your choice: Which position do you choose: Either God is eternal and man also is eternal. Or man is not eternal, and therefore God is not eternal either.
The word is an adjective that comes from aion, which means age. An age definitely has a beginning and it definitely have an end. So if you want to continue to think that you "eternal" life that is "supposed" to last forever and ever and ever is aionios then you are more than welcome to that belief. However I believe the life that God "gave" me is everlasting and not aionios.[/quote
And God is not aionios? You are badly mistaken. Study 1Tim.6:16. God is aionions, meaning eternal and everlasting--intechangeable adjectives. I am glad I have reliable lexicons and don't have to rely on your word for definions.
I don't know how many times I have answered your third response and I know you have read my responses, but you just keep on keep'in on with the nonsense that you are espousing here (that should be a hint as to whether you have a clue or not and what your intentions are by the way).

Christ's blood is ABSOLUTELY/PERFECTLY sufficient. However just becuase Christ's blood is ABSOLUTELY/PERFECTLY "capable" of something does NOT mean it is also 100% guaranteed to carry out that capability.
If one has to pay for their sins in a Baptist Purgatory then logically Christ's blood is not sufficient. And it doesn't matter one whit how many times you repeat yourself, that is just plain logic. You don't believe that the blood of Christ is sufficient to cover all your sins for the sins of those excluded from the kingdom are obviously not covered. Jump up and down all you want, but it won't change the facts.
I John 1:9 - IF we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us.
This is a common mistake of many new believers--to apply this verse to the situation of an unsaved person or to salvation. It has nothing to do with either situation. 1John 1:9 speaks of fellowship with God, our relationship with him. We confess our sns to maintain our walk with him. This has nothing to do with either salvation or even chastisement.

I'm not sure why folks want to act as though that little word does not exist in the text. It does and it's there for a reason.

It means we can not confess. And if we don't our sins will not be forgiven. Thefore even though Christ's blood is ABSOLUTELY and PERFECTLY capable of covering my sin it's not going to if I don't confess.
"IF" means that when the beiever goes to Christ with his sins that Christ is faithful to forgive them. It is a very simple teaching. You are wrong in your interpretation. It is not a threat, but a promise. It is a promise that Christ will be faithful and just to forgive us our sins when we come to him. It has to do with our fellowship with him, and has nothing to do with any kind of punishment.
Now maybe this time you will want to address my question that no one else has cared to address and that is why do I have to confess something for forgiveness that God has supposedly already forgiven? That makes ZERO sense.

If I have to confess something to be forgiven which has already been forgiven that means the first time wasn't good enough. That is NOT the description of a PERFECT God.
All my sins are forgiven--as far as my salvation is concerned.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus--none.
The gift of God is eternal life. Eternal--without end.

The only reason for confession of sin is to maintain our relationship with Christ.
Read Psalm 66:18
--If I regard iniquity in my heart the Lord will not hear me.
It doesn't say that he will take away my salvation or punish me for a thousand years, does it?
 
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