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The stepping stones of Justification
- Thread starter Van
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What does scripture say. Rom 10:17. Nature does not create.
MB
We say gift of God towards His own, others say the Gospel itself has power to give faith if we agree with God to get saved!
IOW, it has the power to give faith if we already have it.
I would not agree that faith in Christ is imparted. We hear the preaching of the word. We either accept it as truth or not, depending on conviction and our being convinced of what is being said. Faith is trust we trust in Christ first.
Eph_1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
MB
Yes
One stone, One step - Justification, being made righteous.
12:2 ἀφορῶντες εἰς τὸν τῆς πίστεως ἀρχηγὸν καὶ τελειωτὴν Ἰησοῦν ὃς ἀντὶ τῆς προκειμένης αὐτῷ χαρᾶς ὑπέμεινεν σταυρὸν αἰσχύνης καταφρονήσας ἐν δεξιᾷ τε τοῦ θρόνου τοῦ θεοῦ εκάθισεν
Looking into the, of the of faith, originator and finisher, Jesus,
How was Jesus the originator and finisher, perfecter if you will, of, the faith? When was, the faith, authored and perfected?
What faith? Is it the very same, to faith, unto which the cloud of witnesses of V 1 did what they did? Did they do what they did by, their faith or unto, the faith, yet to be authored and perfected?
The gospel and the faith are the same thing. Heb 5:8 through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, ---------- obedience of faith
Phil 2:8,9 and in fashion having been found as a man, (Heb Son) he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross, wherefore (Because of this obedience), also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that is above every name,
1 Cor 15:1-4 And I make known to you, brethren, the gospel (good news) that I proclaimed to you, which also ye did receive, in which also ye have stood, through which also ye are being saved, in what words I proclaimed good news to you, if ye hold fast, except ye did believe in vain, for I delivered to you first, what also I did receive, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Writings, and that he was buried, and that he hath risen on the third day, according to the Writings,
V 17 and if Christ hath not risen, vain the faith of you, ye are yet in your sins;
The KJV translates Strong's G3152 in the following manner: vain (5x), vanities (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
That is the faith being authored and perfected? It is the only, faith, spoken of in the word of God what has any meaning, weather for Abel or for any one yet to be born.
Prove me otherwise.
12:2 ἀφορῶντες εἰς τὸν τῆς πίστεως ἀρχηγὸν καὶ τελειωτὴν Ἰησοῦν ὃς ἀντὶ τῆς προκειμένης αὐτῷ χαρᾶς ὑπέμεινεν σταυρὸν αἰσχύνης καταφρονήσας ἐν δεξιᾷ τε τοῦ θρόνου τοῦ θεοῦ εκάθισεν
Looking into the, of the of faith, originator and finisher, Jesus,
How was Jesus the originator and finisher, perfecter if you will, of, the faith? When was, the faith, authored and perfected?
What faith? Is it the very same, to faith, unto which the cloud of witnesses of V 1 did what they did? Did they do what they did by, their faith or unto, the faith, yet to be authored and perfected?
The gospel and the faith are the same thing. Heb 5:8 through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, ---------- obedience of faith
Phil 2:8,9 and in fashion having been found as a man, (Heb Son) he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross, wherefore (Because of this obedience), also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that is above every name,
1 Cor 15:1-4 And I make known to you, brethren, the gospel (good news) that I proclaimed to you, which also ye did receive, in which also ye have stood, through which also ye are being saved, in what words I proclaimed good news to you, if ye hold fast, except ye did believe in vain, for I delivered to you first, what also I did receive, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Writings, and that he was buried, and that he hath risen on the third day, according to the Writings,
V 17 and if Christ hath not risen, vain the faith of you, ye are yet in your sins;
The KJV translates Strong's G3152 in the following manner: vain (5x), vanities (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
- devoid of force, truth, success, result
- useless, of no purpose
That is the faith being authored and perfected? It is the only, faith, spoken of in the word of God what has any meaning, weather for Abel or for any one yet to be born.
Prove me otherwise.
who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him a cause of salvation age-during,Heb 5:7-9
'This Jesus did God raise up, of which we are all witnesses; at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear; Acts 2:32,33
'But I tell you the truth; it is better for you that I go away, for if I may not go away, the Comforter will not come unto you, and if I go on, I will send Him unto you; John 16:7
Did you receive the Spirit because you trust or because the Son trusted the Father?
this only do I wish to learn from you -- by works of law the Spirit did ye receive, or out of hearing of faith?
What did you hear about that told you of the Holy Spirit being given to ones believing.
IMHO we are not saved because we believe, we believe, because we have been saved out of the faith of Jesus.
So we are the source of God's power. Praise be to us!
Must you always assume? We have the ability to believe, believing is faith. We hear the gospel and believe not because we have been given faith but because our faith is what we use to believe with. Every time we hear the gospel our faith can be increased. Wed are created with the ability to believe.When the disciples asked Jesus to increase the faith Jesus the Word kept preaching.
MB
This Calvinist posts in Greek Proverbs 26:4 in response to my post, but did not intend to indicate the verse was applicable to me. This is the sort of tommy-rot up with I must put.
Almost all Christians would claim to believe we were justified by faith, and perhaps quote Romans 3:28, which says we are justified by faith and not by the works of the Law. If pressed, many Christians would define “works of the law” as the actions we take to conform to the requirements of the Law, rather than what the “law” actually accomplishes, which is to make us aware of our sin and lead us to Christ.
So lets back up and ask the question, justified by whose faith? Does our faith justify us? If we took a poll, would not a large group, perhaps even a majority, say our faith justifies us? But that would be a works based salvation would it not. Ah but you say faith is not a work.
Maybe we should back up again and consider “justified by whom?” Were we justified by what we did or by what Christ did on the cross? The free gift of justification to life was provided by Christ on the cross, Romans 5:18. So it was Christ’s faithfulness, even unto death on the cross, which provided the propitiation for the whole world. So then the question becomes, how did we “receive” that gift or have that gift applied to us individually?
So it would seem, then that our faith in Christ provides access to Christ’s free gift of justification by the grace of God. But does that too miss the mark? I think so. Would not our faith in effect “save us” then and make us the actual architect of our salvation?
So if our placing our faith in Christ does not automatically save us, then God must credit our faith as righteousness and spiritually place us “in Christ” which saves us because in Christ we receive the justification to life provided by Christ. Wow now that is a systematic theology that fits with all scripture.
So lets back up and ask the question, justified by whose faith? Does our faith justify us? If we took a poll, would not a large group, perhaps even a majority, say our faith justifies us? But that would be a works based salvation would it not. Ah but you say faith is not a work.
Maybe we should back up again and consider “justified by whom?” Were we justified by what we did or by what Christ did on the cross? The free gift of justification to life was provided by Christ on the cross, Romans 5:18. So it was Christ’s faithfulness, even unto death on the cross, which provided the propitiation for the whole world. So then the question becomes, how did we “receive” that gift or have that gift applied to us individually?
So it would seem, then that our faith in Christ provides access to Christ’s free gift of justification by the grace of God. But does that too miss the mark? I think so. Would not our faith in effect “save us” then and make us the actual architect of our salvation?
So if our placing our faith in Christ does not automatically save us, then God must credit our faith as righteousness and spiritually place us “in Christ” which saves us because in Christ we receive the justification to life provided by Christ. Wow now that is a systematic theology that fits with all scripture.
The stepping stones to justification do not include the fiction of "the gift of faith via irresistible grace." If God had instilled the "gift of faith" He would not need to credit our faith as righteousness. No answer will be forthcoming.
No one is going to explain why God credits our faith as righteousness, after He instills His faith into us. There is no answer, the premise of instilled faith is a fiction.
No one is going to explain why God credits our faith as righteousness, after He instills His faith into us. There is no answer, the premise of instilled faith is a fiction.
Lets return to our stepping stones that take us across the torrent of confusion:
Number 1 always starts with God. If God did not provide the grace of His revelation, both in what He has made, and the special revelation in His word, we would not even be able to have faith in God, and as Paul referenced, we might have faith in the "unknown god."
1) God reveals Himself to human kind, in two ways.
2) We are exposed to His declaration of the gospel of Christ. Thus without the work of the Holy Spirit, both in the inspired word, and in His leading of witnesses, we would not know what to put our faith in.
3) Some of those exposed to the gospel are unable to understand it, those who are described as the first soil of Matthew 13.
4) Others, understand the message, but do not commit fully, or do not discard their worldly treasures. These are described as the second and third soil of Matthew 13.
5) A "few" understand the message and fully commit, they go "all in" and therefore love God with all their mind, heart and soul.
6) These few are the ones whose faith God credits as righteousness, and are spiritually placed into Christ, thus these "few" are chosen for salvation.
7) Once God gives an individual to Christ, Christ has promised to not cast out, thus our salvation is eternal.
8) Once in Christ, we are justified, made righteous, forgiven, regenerated, made alive, and given the ministry of reconciliation.
The gospel of Christ
Number 1 always starts with God. If God did not provide the grace of His revelation, both in what He has made, and the special revelation in His word, we would not even be able to have faith in God, and as Paul referenced, we might have faith in the "unknown god."
1) God reveals Himself to human kind, in two ways.
2) We are exposed to His declaration of the gospel of Christ. Thus without the work of the Holy Spirit, both in the inspired word, and in His leading of witnesses, we would not know what to put our faith in.
3) Some of those exposed to the gospel are unable to understand it, those who are described as the first soil of Matthew 13.
4) Others, understand the message, but do not commit fully, or do not discard their worldly treasures. These are described as the second and third soil of Matthew 13.
5) A "few" understand the message and fully commit, they go "all in" and therefore love God with all their mind, heart and soul.
6) These few are the ones whose faith God credits as righteousness, and are spiritually placed into Christ, thus these "few" are chosen for salvation.
7) Once God gives an individual to Christ, Christ has promised to not cast out, thus our salvation is eternal.
8) Once in Christ, we are justified, made righteous, forgiven, regenerated, made alive, and given the ministry of reconciliation.
The gospel of Christ
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