The Trust & Faith of Christ towards God, dwells within us.

[CalTech]

Greetings,


I pray the Lord will give grace to ALL who need to understand from whom our Faith and Trust towards God the Father comes from. May the Lord bless it to the hearts of His Children chosen from the foundations of the earth. In Jesus name Amen.


How the Characteristics of Grace Appear

2Co_ 3:4-6:
2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

As I read this, I was caught by the first nine words; “And we have such trust through Christ toward God”. These words truly stuck out, “such trust through Christ”, that this ‘trust’ and ‘Faith’ is all through Christ, since we be hid in Christ Jesus, then all His Faith and Trust in God, will become ours, or is ours more and more as we grow in Grace to Grace. As He brings us into a more ‘mature’ relationship, our Faith in God grows as well as our Trust for all this comes from Jesus Christ himself. “To be one, as we are one”.

That is why ‘nothing’ comes from within ourselves, it is all a gift of grace from God the Father because of Jesus Christ and His Faith and Trust towards God His Father. So that explains why “our sufficiency is from God” because Christ’s sufficiency came from His Father, God himself, through the work of the Holy Spirit. Did not Jesus say, “I do nothing of myself”?

Joh 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.


Everything Jesus did was according to God’s will, for He said, “I came not to do my will; Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


So that is why all of our sufficiency comes from God through Jesus Christ, for we are “hid in Christ”. Everything that was found in Christ towards His relationship to God the Father and His Will is to be ours also, if we be truly born of God’s spirit. Born from above of incorruptible seed, not from the fleshly seed of religiousness.


So the following scriptures surely confirm everything which is mentioned above.

Rom_3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Gal_2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal_3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal_3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Gal_3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Php_3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


However there are more scriptures which prove what the Spirit of Our Lord is saying. So I encourage you to find these treasures of truth, on your own, and may our Dear Sweet Lord bless you as you seek out His Truth, for the edifying of your Faith and Trust in and through Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom be Glory, Honor & Praise forever more……

AMEN!


The Lord bless you...
In His Love....

 

[Van]

2 Corinthians 3:4-6
Such is the confidence we have toward God through Christ. Not that we are adequate in ourselves so as to consider anything as having come from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

So as Ambassadors of Christ, we have confidence in our "adequacy" not due to our flawed understanding which we learned from other people, but our "adequacy is from God's indwelt Spirit.

Then, you take several verses which if correctly translated refers not to our faith on or toward Christ, but Christ's faithfulness in dying on the cross, and then conflate them with verses indicating our faith on or toward Christ.

Lets take the faithfulness of Christ verses first:
Rom 3:22 (NET)
namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction,
Gal 2:16 (NET)
yet we know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by the faithfulness of Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. [Note the phrase "believed in Christ," that actually says believed "into" (eis) Christ, refers to God putting us into Christ after crediting our faith as righteousness.]
Gal 2:20 (NET)
I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the body, I live because of the faithfulness of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Gal 3:22 (NET)
But the scripture imprisoned everything and everyone under sin so that the promise could be given - because of the faithfulness of Jesus Christ - to those who believe.
Phl 3:9 (NET)
and be found in him, not because I have my own righteousness derived from the law, but because I have the righteousness that comes by way of Christ's faithfulness - a righteousness from God that is in fact based on Christ's faithfulness.

None of these "faithfulness of Christ" verses suggest God's faith is somehow instilled in believers.

Now lets look at your other two citations:
Gal 3:26 (NET)
For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith.
Here we see that we become children of God when we are "in (within) Christ. And we see that we achieve this spiritual relocation from the realm of darkness into Christ "through" or by way of faith. The verse does not address the origin of that "faith" so to claim it was instilled by God is simply to rewrite scripture, which you should see as a no-no.
Eph 2:8
For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Again we see that salvation is through (or by way of) faith. And again the verse does not address the origin of that "faith." Yes I know Calvinism falsely claims the "not of yourselves" applies to "faith" but actually based on the meaning of grace, the intended message is "salvation" is not of ourselves, it is a gift of God.

As you, or anyone using objective reasoning, can see, not one of your verses actually supported the Calvinist fiction.

 

[CalTech]

2 Corinthians 3:4-6
Such is the confidence we have toward God through Christ. Not that we are adequate in ourselves so as to consider anything as having come from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

So as Ambassadors of Christ, we have confidence in our "adequacy" not due to our flawed understanding which we learned from other people, but our "adequacy is from God's indwelt Spirit.

Then, you take several verses which if correctly translated refers not to our faith on or toward Christ, but Christ's faithfulness in dying on the cross, and then conflate them with verses indicating our faith on or toward Christ.

Lets take the faithfulness of Christ verses first:
Rom 3:22 (NET)
namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction,
Gal 2:16 (NET)
yet we know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by the faithfulness of Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. [Note the phrase "believed in Christ," that actually says believed "into" (eis) Christ, refers to God putting us into Christ after crediting our faith as righteousness.]
Gal 2:20 (NET)
I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the body, I live because of the faithfulness of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Gal 3:22 (NET)
But the scripture imprisoned everything and everyone under sin so that the promise could be given - because of the faithfulness of Jesus Christ - to those who believe.
Phl 3:9 (NET)
and be found in him, not because I have my own righteousness derived from the law, but because I have the righteousness that comes by way of Christ's faithfulness - a righteousness from God that is in fact based on Christ's faithfulness.

None of these "faithfulness of Christ" verses suggest God's faith is somehow instilled in believers.

Now lets look at your other two citations:
Gal 3:26 (NET)
For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith.
Here we see that we become children of God when we are "in (within) Christ. And we see that we achieve this spiritual relocation from the realm of darkness into Christ "through" or by way of faith. The verse does not address the origin of that "faith" so to claim it was instilled by God is simply to rewrite scripture, which you should see as a no-no.
Eph 2:8
For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Again we see that salvation is through (or by way of) faith. And again the verse does not address the origin of that "faith." Yes I know Calvinism falsely claims the "not of yourselves" applies to "faith" but actually based on the meaning of grace, the intended message is "salvation" is not of ourselves, it is a gift of God.

As you, or anyone using objective reasoning, can see, not one of your verses actually supported the Calvinist fiction.

Greetings,

Thank you for your response.
Again I am not aware of nor have I read any of Calvinist's teachings, nor men who have written books concerning "Calvin's belief's) I follow not after man, Just the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.
As I have said, since you utilize the NET which is from the "Alexandrian Greek", I shall not continue on with any conversation for it shall not be beneficial to me, nor too you.

So for the sake of peace within this "Board", I shall not encourage contentiousness.
Believe what you shall, I shall not and will not sell the Truth of God, and I shall not be moved from it.
"Buy the Truth, and Sell it not".......is God's motto imprinted upon the tablet's of my heart, soul and mind.

Pro 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
Pro 23:26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways.


The Lord bless you....
In His Love...

 

[Van]

I will continue to point that your posts present false teachings, Sir, of which KJVOism is just one.
And as I pointed out the verses you object to as NET errors, say "faith of Christ" in your KJV. I kid you not...

 

[Alan Gross]

"faith of Christ"

 

[Van]

If you look at the KJV's rendering of Romans 3:22 it contains "faith of Jesus Christ." One aspect of the Greek word translated "faith" is that can also mean fidelity (Titus 2:10) and that refers to faithfulness. So while the KJV translates the Greek as faith in this verse, the idea is actually fidelity or faithfulness.

Romans 3:22
(KJV)
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:​

Note that the Righteousness of God is upon all them that believe, by (meaning accomplished by) the fidelity or faithfulness of Christ who sacrificed His life on the cross.

Thus the KJV's translation of Romans 3:22, Galatians 2:16, Galatians 2:20, Galatians 3:22 and Philippians 3:9 is consistent and does not conflict with the NET's translations of those verses.

 

[CalTech]

I will continue to point that your posts present false teachings, Sir, of which KJVOism is just one.
And as I pointed out the verses you object to as NET errors, say "faith of Christ" in your KJV. I kid you not...

Greetings,

You still have not prove me in error.
I stand upon which the Holy Spirit has taught, and not by any "human intellect". You can twist anyway you desire.
I lie not.......

In His Love....

 

[Van]

Greetings,

You still have not prove me in error.
I stand upon which the Holy Spirit has taught, and not by any "human intellect". You can twist anyway you desire.
I lie not.......

In His Love....

No one needs "prove you in error" as the reality is obvious. Someone said it is easier to fool someone than to convince someone they have been fooled.

Christ's faithfulness in going to the cross is in view in both the KJV translation and NET translation of Romans 3:22, Galatians 2:16, 2:20 and 3:22, and Philippians 3:9. If we look at all the English translations given on Bible Gateway for Romans 3:22, about 21 of them indicate Christ's fidelity or faith or faithfulness is in view, rather than our faith on or toward Christ.

 

[Van]

Does anyone else disagree that "faith of Christ" refers to Christ's faith or fidelity, rather than our faith on or toward Christ?

Now do some translations go too far and claim Romans 3:26 refers to Christ's faith or fidelity rather than correctly as our faith and commitment toward Christ? Yes, including the mistaken NET, but not the accurate KJV.

 

[CalTech]

Does anyone else disagree that "faith of Christ" refers to Christ's faith or fidelity, rather than our faith on or toward Christ?

Now do some translations go too far and claim Romans 3:26 refers to Christ's faith or fidelity rather than correctly as our faith and commitment toward Christ? Yes, including the mistaken NET, but not the accurate KJV.

Greetings,


1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
1Ti 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

The Lord bless you.....
In His Love......

 

[Van]

I see one more verse, Philippians 3:9 which needs further discussion.

Philippians 3:9 (NET)
and be found in him, not because I have my own righteousness derived from the law, but because I have the righteousness that comes by way of Christ's faithfulness - a righteousness from God that is in fact based on Christ's faithfulness. ​

It is by no means necessary that the NET's interpretation is correct. For example if we go with the CSB, we find:

CSB
and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own from the law, but one that is through faith in Christ—the righteousness from God based on faith.​

Now if we compare with the KJV:KJV

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:​

Here we see that the first questionable translation choice agrees with the NET, and the second on agrees with the CSB.

Personally I think the idea is "by means of the faithfulness of Christ - a righteousness from God based on our credited faith. But I am certainly open to alternate interpretations. My choice then agrees with the NET and KJV for the first phrase, and is consistent with the CSB and KJV for the second, although it takes the dative to indicate a live and credited faith.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

This is a very old chestnut concerning the use of the Genitive Case in the KJV and also the question of the Subjective and Objective Genitive.
Firstly, the KJV. 'Of' can mean 'from' or 'out of'(Genesis 2:7; 2 Corinthians 3:5). It can mean 'concerning' (Genesis 20:2), or 'in regard to' Matthew 5:22 etc.), or 'in respect of' or umpteen other different meanings. I'm not saying that the KJV is wrong; I am simply stating a fact.

As I recall, there are at least nine different uses of the Genitive without a preposition in the Greek NT including 'from,' 'by,' 'in respect of' and 'with.' I expect that a Greek expert would be able to list the other five. If we suppose that 'the faith of Christ' must mean our Lord's own personal faith or faithfulness, how do we get on with 'the fear of God'? Is God afraid? Of course not! It is our fear in respect of or towards God. How about 'the love of money'? Does money love? And so on. I don't want to get into a boring Greek lesson which I am ill-qualified to give, but whenever I see pistis Christou, I am very happy with the translation 'faith in Christ.'

Let's take Galatians 2:16, KJV. 'Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.'

First of all the Greek here is anarthrous. It is not 'the works of the law' but 'works of law' and it is not 'the faith of Christ' but 'faith of Christ.' Now is it the law that works and yet fails to justify us? Of course not! It is we who, by our work in respect of the law, may seek and fail to be justified. So is it Christ's own faith, or faithfulness, that justifies us? I don't think so. It is our faith towards or in respect of Christ that justifies us, which is what the verse says: 'even we have believed in Jesus Christ' and it is through that faith that God justifies us (Acts of the Apostles 13:39; Romans 3:30; 5:1).

 

[Van]

I would not call the translations that say "faith in Christ" indicating our faith is in view, where other translations say "faith of Christ" indicating His faith or fidelity is in view an "Old Chestnut." One version or the other is a gross corruption of God's word. Obviously the NET takes some of the genitives as "Subjective Genitives" thus Christ's faith or fidelity is in view. The KJV is not far off the mark, going with "faith of Christ" in these verses. About 20 other English translations agree with the KJV such as the NET.

Thus Galatians 2:16 indicates we are not justified based on works of Law, but by means of Christ's faithfulness. This message is missing in the NLT, NIV and ESV.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I would not call the translations that say "faith in Christ" indicating our faith is in view, where other translations say "faith of Christ" indicating His faith or fidelity is in view an "Old Chestnut." One version or the other is a gross corruption of God's word. Obviously the NET takes some of the genitives as "Subjective Genitives" thus Christ's faith or fidelity is in view. The KJV is not far off the mark, going with "faith of Christ" in these verses. About 20 other English translations agree with the KJV such as the NET.

Thus Galatians 2:16 indicates we are not justified based on works of Law, but by means of Christ's faithfulness. This message is missing in the NLT, NIV and ESV.

I called the question an 'old chestnut' because it's been argued over for years. An English false teacher made a name for himself insisting that we are saved by the faith of Christ. I remember threshing this out with some guy over 20 years ago. I seem to remember that the HCSB spoke of the 'faithfulness of Christ,' whereas its successor, the CSB, has (rightly IMO) reverted to 'faith in Christ.'
The point is that in Galatians 2:16 it seems unlikely (though possible, I suppose) that Paul would use the Subjective Genitive for pisteos Iesou and the Objective Genitive for ergon nomou. Also, in Revelation14:12, I don't see how someone keeps 'the faithfulness of Jesus.' It clearly means 'the faith concerning, or in respect of, Jesus;' that is, an Objective Genitive.

 

[Van]

Although Revelation 14:12 was not listed in the OP, the KJV, and about 25 others, do render the ending "faith of Jesus." However the NET, CSB, ESV, LEB, NASB, NIV and NLT do not. Another interesting observation is that some translations go with faithfulness to Jesus, rather than faith in Jesus. As far as the Greek grammar, in this phrase, faith is not in the genitive but is in the accusative case.

Here is the NET footnote concerning the phrase:

40tn Grk “faith of Jesus.” The construction may mean either “faith in Jesus” or “faithful to Jesus.” Either translation implies that ᾿Ιησοῦ (Ihsou) is to be taken as an objective genitive; the difference is more lexical than grammatical because πίστις (pistis) can mean either “faith” or “faithfulness.”

An "objective genitive" points to the object of the faith or fidelity, thus faith in, or on, or toward Jesus.