The Whole World

One, all of mankind.

 

I find two uses of "world" in 1John:

1. The fallen system of mankind because of sin (all occurrences of kosmos outside of 3:17).

2. The physical world (3:17).

 

Group one is part of your second group.

The evil influence has power even within the Church. This is why we must stand and fight...

 

Huh?

19We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.


We
from God



Whole world
under the power of Satan

2 groups

 

Christ has defeated death and Satan.

We are in Christ.

Death and evil have no power over us.

 

You mean the penalty of Sin, correct?

sin's influence is not only direct but indirect. We are still in this world, just not of this world.

 

Not just the penalty but also the power of sin. We are not slaves to it now. Even though we still sin, we are no longer slaves that can do nothing but sin.

 

Exactly !

And as you have shown John in his writting of 1 John (chapter 5) stating and giving a definate defintion of the phrase 'whole world' being all men who lie in wickedness, it establishes what John meant earlier in the epistle 1 John where he declares that Christ is the propitiation for our sins (your first group - saved) but not for ours ONLY, but the sins of the 'WHOLE WORLD' (all those who lie in wickedness - second group).

 

Allan,
I posted this to you in the now closed thread, "Who did Jesus Die For?

And this quote below is how you explain how Jesus can be the "Propitiation not for ours only, but for the sins of all the ungodly"?

Jesus did not actually turn aside God's wrath or take away anyone's sin when He died.
God's wrath was still beating down on all who at that time were still unbelievers, even if their faith was a known future faith, God's wrath would not be turned aside from even them, nor their sins removed, until the moment they profess faith. If Jesus' death did fully atone for and remove the known believers sin at the time of His death, then there is no need for faith according to your statements. It would be seen as being "automatically given" to those who will in the future be saved and thus removing the need for faith.
Also Jesus' death condemned "all the ungodly" who had already perished in their sin prior to His death on the cross and no application of propitiation could be given to them.

Have I accurately stated what you believe?

 

Matthew 24:14 (HCSB):

This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed
in all the world as a testimony to all nations.
And then the end will come.


Items quoted from THE ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN WORLD,
1991-1992 Edition (Tyndale, 1990), page 305+.

61AD - Colossians 1:6 (HCSB):
the gospel that has come to you. It is bearing fruit
and growing all over the world, just as it has
among you since the day you heard it and recognized
God's grace in the truth.

c. 140AD - Hermas writes: "The Son of God ... has
been preached to the ends of the earth" (Shepherd
of Hermas).

197AD - Tertullian (c160-222) ... writes ... "There
is no nation indeed which is not Christian" ...

c. 205AD - Clement of Alexandria (c155-215) ... writes
"The whole world, with Athens and Greece, has already
become the domain of the Word."

c. 310 - Eusebius of Caesarea (c265-339) writes ...
""The doctrine of the Savious
has irradiated the whole Oikumene
(whole inhabited earth)"

378 - Jerome (c345-419) writes: "From India to Britian, all
nations resound with the death and resurrection of CHrist".
estimates 1.9 million Christians to have been marytred
since AD33 (out of 120 million Christians). ...

etc.

IMHO Matthew 24:4-14 describes the world from
the Resurrection (c30-33AD) to the current time,
from the current time until the Pretribulation Rapture2
(a Resurrection1 followed shortly by a Rapture1).
The Pretribulation Rapture2 ends the Church Age
(AKA /also known as/ the Time of the Gentiles or
Gentile Age, this present evil age).

This verse 14 keeps being fulfilled -- it is a sign
that the Church Age continues.

 

I have never held the view 'whole world' means all of mankind (as in all believers and non-believers), but that it means all the wicked and ungodly.

You have been clear on this for a long time now and was made clear again just recently in another thread, and one just before that one two.

 

I never made these statements or anything of the kind.

You quoted it via the quote icon, so what is the point in even asking?
You have the basic gist of my argument via my own writting.

 

I realize you've never stated it the way I did. I'm asking you if that's what you think 1 John 2:2 means by it's use of "propititation and "whole world".

What quote are you referring to?


Also I've been looking into your idea that Christ's death served a two-fold purpose.
1) to save those who believe
2) to condemn those who do not believe
with reference to John 3:16-18.

I have yet to see how you can extrapolate this second purpose from that text.
Perhaps a new thread is in order, but I'd like to see this idea discussed in more detail.

 

Hi all. I'm new here, so bear with me. :thumbs:

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (KJV)

Does this mean that we all "lie in wickedness" to the extent that sin is in us?