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The Works Based Salvation - Whats the big deal?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by rockytopva, Jul 7, 2019.

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  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Most churches I hang around are not into what they call a works based salvation and generally frown on such an idea. But, to my annoyance....

    1. Nobody wants to pray
    2. There are no more revivals
    3. Hard to find good musicians
    4. Hard to organize youth activities
    5. Church attendance is sporadic

    Some of these folks end up leaving their spouses for greener pastures. And end up being very much unprofitable and uncommitted people. I think at least a little stress of good works is a good thing!
     
    #1 rockytopva, Jul 7, 2019
  2. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I understand the title.

    But answering it at face value, I'd say this:
    Works-based salvation is just like any other world-religion...
    It promises Heaven for "doing all the right things".

    As for your list above, I see several things that make me think the problem is on the "inside" with the people who are drifting away:
    Lack of the Holy Spirit and His power to overcome the flesh and it's desires.

    Without being born again and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, there is no ability to do the things of God, and without being born again, there is no internal desire to be with God's people, to obey the Lord, nor is there any motivation to pray other than in context with "religious conditioning", as I see it.

    Also, "tares" fall away, while "wheat" produces true spiritual fruit ( Matthew 13 ).


    May God bless you.
     
    #2 Dave G, Jul 7, 2019
  3. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    "Without being born again and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, there is no ability to do the things of God." Well said and I agree.... The next question begs....

    And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, "Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed" - Acts 19:1-2

    When the true Holy Spirit resides down in there good works will follow.
     
    #3 rockytopva, Jul 7, 2019
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  4. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    I know too many churches in my area on death watches. In other words, there are about a dozen elderly folk in the congregation and the talk when one of them goes missing is, "I wonder what happened to sister so-and so?"

    And the child Samuel ministered unto the Lord before Eli. And the word of the Lord was precious in those days; there was no open vision. - 1 Samuel 3:1

    Where there is no vision, the people perish.... - Proverbs 29:18

    When the true Holy Spirit resides down in there good works and quality fellowship will follow.
     
    #4 rockytopva, Jul 7, 2019
  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I think I know what you are saying. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    You have noticed many professing Christians believe you don't get to heaven by doing good works....and they are determined to prove it!!!

    Peace to you
     
    #5 canadyjd, Jul 9, 2019
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  6. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I find that when a church reaches this condition, they have left their first love... Its not that they cease to be Gods children or they have lost their Salvation, they just lost the joy and blessing of it for some reason... We all go through hills and valley's in our lives in serving the Lord, but Christ love is everlasting, and, ours is not... May be if these problems are addressed in churches that you have been to, you could get to the heart of the matter and deal with it... Where there is no vision the people perish?... Remove what is marring people from seeing the vision and they live... Never say their is no work in Salvation, there is work abundantly, to love your God and each other likewise, not to get Salvation but because you already have it... I'm Sovereign Grace also and there is nothing in me the Lord saw that said I deserved Salvation... I can look back on my life after 73 years and see where the Lord was with me and I know there were many times he was there and I didn't know it... I also find that when I think all is lost then God shows up... He is the only one that deserves ALL THE GLORY!... Brother Glen:)
     
    #6 tyndale1946, Jul 11, 2019
  7. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I believe some call this apostacy
    MB
     
    #7 MB, Jul 12, 2019
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  8. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I'm courious why do people insist that we pray out loud in Church. Just seems hypocritical to me Remember that what the Father hears in secret He will reward thee openly.
    MB
     
    #8 MB, Jul 12, 2019
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The salvation, which is not by works, has the end goal of good works, Ephesians 2:10.
     
    #9 37818, Jul 12, 2019
  10. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. - Romans 12:1

    The reasonable service -

    1. Presentable Christian Life
    2. Holy and acceptable to God.

    And James goes on to say...

    Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. - James 1:27
     
    #10 rockytopva, Jul 12, 2019
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Please give your understanding of why [the interpretation] salvation is by God's grace [alone] through faith [alone] in Christ [alone].
     
    #11 37818, Jul 13, 2019
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