They Will Know You Are My Disciples If You Trash Heretics

[Revmitchell]

John 13:34-35 is one of my favorite verses.

“I give you a new command: Rebuke one another. Just as I have rebuked you, you are also to rebuke one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, by how boldly you rebuke heretics.”

Judging from social media, that must be how many read what Jesus said. Seldom a day goes by that I don’t get another warning that someone has “denied the gospel and forsaken the truth,” putting the church at risk. Our only hope is to listen to brave “discerners” who identify and call out those false teachers among us.

The problem comes when I actually read what the gospel-denying, church-risking, truth-forsaking people have said, and find that about 99% of the time, they have not forsaken the truth, they have not put the church at risk, and they hold fast to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Their sin is disagreeing with the “discerner” on some secondary or tertiary issue and he has his pants in a bunch over it.

There are real threats to the church today. Satan has always been seeking to undermine the truth since the Garden of Eden and will continue to do so until he is cast into the Lake of Fire. He is a liar and the father of lies. There are wolves among the sheep who seek to lead God’s people astray.

But who is the wolf if not the one who falsely accuses fellow believers of being enemies of the gospel? As we need to stand against those who deny the truth of God’s word we need to stand against those who devour the Body of Christ through false accusation and slander. This roots in tribalism, a self-centered belief that demands that other Christians conform to our group rather than simply that they conform to Christ.

This tribalism that leads to division, to attacking fellow believers with false accusations is too often accompanied by a self-righteous sense of spiritual superiority – as if “our group” is God’s special people and looking down on other groups with disdain is justified. This tribalism is evil and ungodly.

It is time we confront this wicked attitude as forcefully as we confront heretical doctrine.

They Will Know You Are My Disciples If You Trash Heretics

 

[Aaron]

LOL. Let's not forget the tendency of those being corrected to characterize admonitions as attacks and trashing. SMH

 

[37818]

Brings to mind, Romans 2:1, ". . . Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. . . ." Goes along with Matthew 7:1-2.

 

[Ziggy]

If only Paul had taken those words to heart and not called out and trashed heretics by name....

 

[Van]

Accountability is difficult to provide. If I say, "that is not true" the opponent will say "what Van says is not true, and mean spirited to boot.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

The original post assumes that rebuke and love are mutually exclusive ideas which they are not.

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Now I will qualify that some people "rebuke" others for not following certain manmade traditions or expectations and that is wrong, but it's just as wrong to be against the concept of being discerning and exposing error.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The original post assumes that rebuke and love are mutually exclusive ideas which they are not

Leviticus 19:17. 'You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbour, and not bear sin because of him.' The very next verse is the one that tells us to love our neighbour as ourselves, so to rebuke one's neighbour must, under certain circumstances, be a loving thing to do.

 

[JonC]

If only Paul had taken those words to heart and not called out and trashed heretics by name....

Romans 14.

 

[Jerome]

It should be noted that Dave Miller, the author of the OP article, is likey reacting to the squawkers over at the Pullet and Hen blog.

Miller specifically mentions criticisms of Social Justice advocacy, of Sam Alberry, and of Beth Moore. All three are frequent targets of JD Hall and his pals; but it's their recent over the top attacks on the Convention that have really set off SBC insider Miller imo:

just this week...

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/04/26/north-american-mission-board-perjures-itself-to-win-in-court/

"The North American Mission Board (NAMB) of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) is one of the most institutionally corrupt religious organizations in the world....NAMB is a corrupt money-laundering scheme designed to enrich a few, well-entrenched denominational bureaucrats. NAMB regularly lies to Southern Baptists..."

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/04/25/an-open-letter-to-southern-baptists-you-are-in-sin/

"This is an open letter to Southern Baptists who continue to support the Cooperative Program and fund its grievous errors..."

 

[Jerome]

JD Hall & Co. have fired back forcefully at Dave Miller, calling the former SBC vice president a "soft-handed and paunch-swollen potluck-driven professional sycophant from Sioux City, Iowa":

J.D. Hall's Pulpit and Pen Blog • Saturday, April 27

"Miller wrote a blog post at SBC Voices, which we’ll not link lest we quintuple their readership to 5 whole people, attacking discerning Christians entitled, They Will Know You Are My Disciples if You Trash Heretics."

"I’ve never seen Miller forcefully confront anything but discernment and the dessert counter."

Senior Pastor Dave Miller (left) of Southern Hills Baptist, Sioux City, Iowa
& Elder Jordan 'JD" Hall (right) of Fellowship Baptist, Sidney, Montana

 

[JonC]

Leviticus 19:17. 'You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbour, and not bear sin because of him.' The very next verse is the one that tells us to love our neighbour as ourselves, so to rebuke one's neighbour must, under certain circumstances, be a loving thing to do.

I've noticed it is often not done in this manner.

The "rebuke" of a brother is always with the intention of bringing the brother into a correct standing (and often includes self-examination). Often, however, it seems to be a matter of pride from the one providing correction.

 

[Reynolds]

John 13:34-35 is one of my favorite verses.

“I give you a new command: Rebuke one another. Just as I have rebuked you, you are also to rebuke one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, by how boldly you rebuke heretics.”

Judging from social media, that must be how many read what Jesus said. Seldom a day goes by that I don’t get another warning that someone has “denied the gospel and forsaken the truth,” putting the church at risk. Our only hope is to listen to brave “discerners” who identify and call out those false teachers among us.

The problem comes when I actually read what the gospel-denying, church-risking, truth-forsaking people have said, and find that about 99% of the time, they have not forsaken the truth, they have not put the church at risk, and they hold fast to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Their sin is disagreeing with the “discerner” on some secondary or tertiary issue and he has his pants in a bunch over it.

There are real threats to the church today. Satan has always been seeking to undermine the truth since the Garden of Eden and will continue to do so until he is cast into the Lake of Fire. He is a liar and the father of lies. There are wolves among the sheep who seek to lead God’s people astray.

But who is the wolf if not the one who falsely accuses fellow believers of being enemies of the gospel? As we need to stand against those who deny the truth of God’s word we need to stand against those who devour the Body of Christ through false accusation and slander. This roots in tribalism, a self-centered belief that demands that other Christians conform to our group rather than simply that they conform to Christ.

This tribalism that leads to division, to attacking fellow believers with false accusations is too often accompanied by a self-righteous sense of spiritual superiority – as if “our group” is God’s special people and looking down on other groups with disdain is justified. This tribalism is evil and ungodly.

It is time we confront this wicked attitude as forcefully as we confront heretical doctrine.

They Will Know You Are My Disciples If You Trash Heretics

I agree to an extent. Having said that, I find it odd you post this. You spend a huge amount of your time on here calling out Calvinists, Charismatics, J.D. Greear and his crew. Not that anything is wrong with calling them out, but this post seems extremely odd coming from you.

 

[Revmitchell]

I agree to an extent. Having said that, I find it odd you post this. You spend a huge amount of your time on here calling out Calvinists, Charismatics, J.D. Greear and his crew. Not that anything is wrong with calling them out, but this post seems extremely odd coming from you.

Maybe you need to read the op again, better, or for the first time read it beyond the title.

 

[Reynolds]

Maybe you need to read the op again, better, or for the first time read it beyond the title.

I Read it. I am just not sure why you posted it. You disagree or agree with it?

 

[Revmitchell]

I Read it. I am just not sure why you posted it. You disagree or agree with it?

As someone else pointed out it is likely a response to the Pulpit and the Pen blog. What they do is take things way to far and label Dave, the SBC, and anyone they disagree with as the worst possible thing they can think of. Even worse than what some of the cavies on this board do. Not helpful

 

[MB]

John 13:34-35 is one of my favorite verses.

“I give you a new command: Rebuke one another. Just as I have rebuked you, you are also to rebuke one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, by how boldly you rebuke heretics.”

Judging from social media, that must be how many read what Jesus said. Seldom a day goes by that I don’t get another warning that someone has “denied the gospel and forsaken the truth,” putting the church at risk. Our only hope is to listen to brave “discerners” who identify and call out those false teachers among us.

The problem comes when I actually read what the gospel-denying, church-risking, truth-forsaking people have said, and find that about 99% of the time, they have not forsaken the truth, they have not put the church at risk, and they hold fast to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Their sin is disagreeing with the “discerner” on some secondary or tertiary issue and he has his pants in a bunch over it.

There are real threats to the church today. Satan has always been seeking to undermine the truth since the Garden of Eden and will continue to do so until he is cast into the Lake of Fire. He is a liar and the father of lies. There are wolves among the sheep who seek to lead God’s people astray.

But who is the wolf if not the one who falsely accuses fellow believers of being enemies of the gospel? As we need to stand against those who deny the truth of God’s word we need to stand against those who devour the Body of Christ through false accusation and slander. This roots in tribalism, a self-centered belief that demands that other Christians conform to our group rather than simply that they conform to Christ.

This tribalism that leads to division, to attacking fellow believers with false accusations is too often accompanied by a self-righteous sense of spiritual superiority – as if “our group” is God’s special people and looking down on other groups with disdain is justified. This tribalism is evil and ungodly.

It is time we confront this wicked attitude as forcefully as we confront heretical doctrine.

They Will Know You Are My Disciples If You Trash Heretics

Your quote of verses 34-35 is not what the scripture says. This is what it actually says;
Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

The whole problem with Christians today is there isn't much LOVE among believers and certainly not for heretics. It's hard to love our enemies. I suppose you could say Prophecy is coming true in that Love has grown cold.
MB

 

[Revmitchell]

Your quote of verses 34-35 is not what the scripture says. This is what it actually says;
Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

The whole problem with Christians today is there isn't much LOVE among believers and certainly not for heretics. It's hard to love our enemies. I suppose you could say Prophecy is coming true in that Love has grown cold.
MB

First it is not my quote. Second, the distortion of that verse was done by the person who wrote the op to make a point. You might want to actually read it.

 

[MB]

I did read it but obviously you didn't read all of my post before you judged me to have not read yours.
MB

 

[Reynolds]

As someone else pointed out it is likely a response to the Pulpit and the Pen blog. What they do is take things way to far and label Dave, the SBC, and anyone they disagree with as the worst possible thing they can think of. Even worse than what some of the cavies on this board do. Not helpful

The only times I have read the P&P was when someone linked some of their Perry Noble articles. Perry opens the door wide open for criticism, but they went way way way too far.