This is what I was talking about.

This week, on a thread on Skilling's prison sentence, I commented that it was unfortunate that we had such misplaced values, as illustrated by Skillings sentence when compared to those of murderers, drug dealers, rapists, and child molesters. I was attacked by some (who apparently failed to actually read the comments) about being uncaring and unconcerned. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Here is my concern: Immigrant who drove wrong way gets 13 years in fatal DWI crash

Here is a guy, illegal and drunk, who takes a life and gets half the time of Skilling who took nobody's life.

This is what is wrong in our society. We too often value money a whole lot more than we value life. We see it in the decision to abort babies because they will inconvenience our lifestyle and cost money. We see it in the decision to support or allow abortion because it will cost campaign contributions and votes. We see it in our responses to prison sentences.

Those harmed by Skilling's apparent crimes will still see their children everyday. They will watch them grow up, marry, and have children. The family of Min Chang will not. And in 13 years, Jorge will have his life and freedom back, after living on the backs of American taxpayers.

He was deported 17 times between 1996 and 2000, and kept coming back. We need tougher laws, and tougher judges.

(And remember, I am not saying Skilling should have less. I am saying Jorge should have more. He should be put to death for willfullly taking another life. But I would be satisfied with a life sentence at hard labor.)

 

He willfully drank and got behind a car and that means whatever happens was willful. I can't see anyway to mitigate that. When you act irresponsibly, you are willfully choosing whatever consequences come. The fact that you did not intend to does not mean you were unwilling. Had he been unwilling, he would never have gotten behind the will. There is no excuse for this. Thirteen is not nothing, to be sure. But it is paltry in the face of an 18 year old that did not live to be 19.

I realize different states have different laws. My point is not about state laws, but about relative values that we place on crimes.

It is true that this is apples and oranges. What this drunk driver did was infinitely worse than what Skillings did. But he will be free in 13 years. Skillings will have another 12. And Chang will still be dead.

 

Under the law, you can't charge someone with that. You can't even show that it actually happened anyway. But if people committed suicide, that is a tragedy. I don't know of any who did. But even at that, it underlines my original point that we are way too concerned about money. It is sad that someone has such a low view of life that they would take it for money, whether in crime against someone else, or their own life. Isn't life more important than money?

I don't think sentences are about making up for anything. They are not about restitution or reclamation. They are to be about retribution.

And having said that, again, remember that I am not saying Skilling should get less.

Eternity in hell is a biblical basis for incarceration. They will never be paroled or pardoned from there.

Seriously, this is silly. There is no biblical argument for the internet or fora such as this. But that doesn't make them wicked. Furthermore, the existence of punishment for crime is clear in Scripture.

 

Of course you would since it helps your position. But they are already spiritually dead. They are born that way. Usually, incarcerated is when you are locked up in a place of punishment for crimes you have done. That is exactly what hell is.

No, not really.

It is clear what the punishment should be in Israel under the Law. We are not in Israel, and we are not under the Law.

That would be a short thread since there is none. Perhaps you can start one explaining all the Scripture commanding you to be against incarceration? (Then you can see how silly this line of argument is, theologically and biblically). You do a great many things that God did not command, like participate in an internet forum. For you to be against incarceration because "God did't command it" makes no sense. I thought you were kidding when you said this originally. It appears that you are not.

God has left certain things up to people and nations. Some punishments and the way they are carried out is one of them. We are commanded to pursue capital punishment for murder. Other things show the principle of just retribution and repayment. But the specifics are not commanded. Therefore, to practice something that God has no spoken about is perfectly legitimate.

 

I don’t think “meaning for it to happen” is the key here. He did not mean for it not to happen. He willfully and intentionally placed other people in harm’s way, and the actions were willful and intentional.

If this were truly an accident, I agree. But when you impair yourself and blow a 24, and then get behind the wheel, that is intentionally putting others in danger.

I think one of the main things is the relative value of life. In the abortion debate, we are quick to point out that abortion is not okay in cases of rape or incest. A person does not deserve to die because their dad was a bad man. The same principle is true here. Chang’s death is not less of a murder because it the driver was impaired. He knew or should have known that what he did woul lead to what happened. And he did nothing to prevent it. That seems willful to me.

It will be interesting to see what happens.