Those terrible "infidel" Christians........

Yes, this is what happens when religion and government intermingle. Yet, there are those who are ready to abandon that precious separation here in the United States. Lessons not learned, sadly.

 

Thanks for posting this. On the old board, we had a section for Christian Persecution - it disappeared with the changeover.

Thanks for posting the reminder for us to pray for them.

 

Yeah, knocking down a cross from a cemetery or unplugging the mike used by a graduation speaker who talks about Jesus will go a long way toward making *%&$# countries stop persecuting Christians.

 

Correct me if I am wrong. But it is your belief that religiously based governments are inherently dangerous because they always lead to evil dictaterships.

But, secular governments are far more safe without the influence of God in them.

Have I stated your position correctly?

 

No, you have not.

Religion-based government has, in every instance, infringed on freedom of religion, and persecuted those who don't follow the officially-sanctioned religion. History is very clear on this.

Secular governments are not perfect, and can be as evil as religion-based ones, but at least you remove the opportunity of oppressing and persecuting those whose beliefs differ from the religion of the leaders. Unless everyone is free to worship as they see fit, or not worship at all, no one is free.

Edited to add: Religion-based government do not have the "influence of God", but rather the whims of men who impose their view of God's will on others. God gives us free will, government has no right impose restriction on belief. People never do evil so cheerfully as when it is in the name of God, believing themselves to be agents of God's will.

It was in the name of God that the Salem Witch Trials occurred. It was in the name of God that sectarian violence has torn apart Northern Ireland. It is in the name of God that women's rights and religions other than Islam are outlawed in Islamic nations. It is in the name of God that attacks on the US were carried out on Sept. 11, 2001. It is in the name of God that the Crusades were carried out. It was in the name of God that the Inquisition occurred. We must learn the lessons of history, or as George Santayana said, we will be doomed to repeat them. A free people must be vigilant to keep church and state separate.

 

Is that more Christians in proportion to the world's population or just sheer number? If it's mere number, you have to take into consideration that there are also more Christians ever before who are supported & encouraged in their faith. There are more people and more Christians all over the world.

 

==Do you include Old Testament Israel in this? I ask because you said "in every instance".

==True.

==True.

 

That is a good question, Martin, and I actually thought about that before posting. I would say yes, in that the Israelites killed the worshippers of other gods in their conquest of the Promised Land.

 

Magnetic Poles,

Would it not be closer to truth to say that in most instances it was in the name of 'a god' that believers were persecuted and are persecuted?

 

I see your point. China, Nazi Germany, Communist Russia were not perfect, and the "opportunity" to persecute and martyr Christians for their faith was changed to the reality of martyrdom.

 

I am intrigued by this god that you allude to. He seems to be a god of hatred and violence, and sounds more like Mars than Jehovah.

Do you really believe that this god of hate could be the same "god" as the True God that is defined by the Apostle John as Love? In the end, the True God will defeat the god of hate.

The only example that you gave that might be attributed to the True God, would be the Crusades. When the Christians were martyred by the tens of thousands and they fought back in the same manner that they were killed. Other than that, you did not list a single instance of God acting. So did you really intend to attribute the activity of satan to God?

 

All of your notation of 'sic' aside, each religion believes they are worshipping the "true" God, so even though you may feel the actions were not in the name of God as you know him, to those executing those extreme actions, they were indeed in the name of the true God. And more of the examples cited were carried out in the name of the Christian God than just the Crusades (e.g. Salem, Northern Ireland). Humanity, if it is to survive, must get past wars, particularly over things such as "my God can beat up your God".

So it matters not what religion takes the reigns of government, it is a bad idea. The only God-based religion that will work is when Christ returns to rule the earth. Until then let's maintain the Baptist distinctive of keeping government and religion separate.

 

As I noted above, to those running the show, their god IS THE God.

 

One night, in the Philippines, I was watching TV with my nieces and a nephew, and it was a very interesting story, and all of us were absorbed in the plot, and one of my nieces, too.
She sat there unblinking, and I had the impression that she was truly understanding what was going on, she was about 8 at the time.
All of a sudden she looked at me, and said: Uncle, what is this thing on this man's cheek ? Pointing to a small mole on one of the actor's cheeks.

Forgive me if I am like my niece, what with all these interesting statements and counter-statements which are truly educational, but, may I point to a small mole on one of you gentlemen's statements ?

What is "sic" ?

 

It is used to indicate an error made in a quote, so it was used incorrectly. EG's intent was to make it look like I made a mistake, which I did not.

From Wikipedia:
Sic is a Latin word meaning "thus", "so", or "just as that". In writing, it is italicized and placed within square brackets — [sic] — to indicate that an incorrect or unusual spelling, phrase, or other preceding quoted material is a verbatim reproduction of the quoted original and is not a transcription error.

 

Oh, I see.

Thank you. Now I can't decide if I'm seeing a mole or a ball point pen mark.:tongue3: Just kiddin'.:thumbs:

 

Mag

is absolutely correct - his God is a God of hate and evil.

Personal names are capitalized . . . Therefore, [sic] was properly used, unless you meant that God is evil?

God is either 'god' or 'God'. 'god' is the term to denote belief in 'god', but 'God' is capitalized to indicate the God of the Bible.

 

Mag

I don't want war. War is not an attribute of God's love - it can be an attribute of God's wrath. But, we as Christians do not have access to command and represent the use of His wrath. We are commanded to access and be instruments of His Love.

I am not for war, but having read how it all ends - I thought you should know, the Mormon view of humanity surviving in bomb shelters just isn't in the prophecies. Humanity sides with satan and looses the war against God, the One and Only True God that is. Yes, humanity thinks that they will worship the 'God', but prophecy is clear - they will follow the anti-christ straight to damnation.