Those That Never Heard The Gospel

[Marcia]

Although I agree with this answer, and have discussed it with mature believers. This is not a good answer for an un-believing person, asking this same question. It produces some very hostile resuts. :tonofbricks:

I have told unsaved people that we are all born separated from God when they ask about hell. I don't have the luxury of not mentioning hell because I am often asked about it in my ministry by unbelievers. Then I give them the gospel about why Jesus came and how we are redeemed through faith in Him.

 

[webdog]

I know what it says but it also does not say that only those who reject Christ are condemned.

In context, that's exactly what it says.

 

[Marcia]

In context, that's exactly what it says.

But you have to compare scripture with other scripture. And when you do so, it's clear that man is born in sin and needs redemption.

 

[webdog]

But you have to compare scripture with other scripture. And when you do so, it's clear that man is born in sin and needs redemption.

I agree, however I don't believe that Augustinian original sin is taught in Scripture, hence my comparing it to that Scripture will be much different than yours. You can't filter it through the Scripture that you think teaches one is born guilty. I take it at face value, that man is condemned for "believing not".

 

[Marcia]

I agree, however I don't believe that Augustinian original sin is taught in Scripture, hence my comparing it to that Scripture will be much different than yours. You can't filter it through the Scripture that you think teaches one is born guilty. I take it at face value, that man is condemned for "believing not".

I take it that way too from that passage, but all mean are condemned because they are all accountable (Rom. 1 and 2).

 

[billwald]

Yes, but must not one intelligently reject Christ?

Consider the current mortgage/banking mess. Illiterate house buyers could not understand the fine print in the contracts so some say that they are not responsible for their decision to accept the contract.

In the same way, if people don't understand the fine print such as the reality of going to Hell and reject the contract to "believe in" Jesus, are they responsible? This person, who in ignorance, rejected Jesus, if the situation had been explained under more appropriate circumstances to his mental state, might have signed on, which God very well knows. So should this person go to Hell for being ignorant or confused?

 

[Marcia]

Yes, but must not one intelligently reject Christ?

Consider the current mortgage/banking mess. Illiterate house buyers could not understand the fine print in the contracts so some say that they are not responsible for their decision to accept the contract.

In the same way, if people don't understand the fine print such as the reality of going to Hell and reject the contract to "believe in" Jesus, are they responsible? This person, who in ignorance, rejected Jesus, if the situation had been explained under more appropriate circumstances to his mental state, might have signed on, which God very well knows. So should this person go to Hell for being ignorant or confused?

Answer: no. There is no contract.

No one deserves a chance at eternal life. We all deserve eternal death. That anyone is saved is only due to God's grace and mercy.

It is not that if you don't hear about Jesus or don't understand the gospel, then you get to go to heaven. If that were the case, let's not send out missionaries and try to keep the gospel under wraps.

 

[Tom Butler]

Answer: no. There is no contract.

No one deserves a chance at eternal life. We all deserve eternal death. That anyone is saved is only due to God's grace and mercy.

It is not that if you don't hear about Jesus or don't understand the gospel, then you get to go to heaven. If that were the case, let's not send out missionaries and try to keep the gospel under wraps.

Well said, Marcia.

Those who contend that everyone has heard the gospel, someway, somehow, must still deal with Paul's assertion in Romans 10:14: "..how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard?"

This, of course, does not speak to the basis on which they will be condemned. But it cannot be for rejecting the gospel.

 

[Jim1999]

The scripture plainly teaches that we were condemned already. The choice to redeem is not on our merits, but purely on God's grace.

Simply, here is where we divide theological truth and human endeavour. We don't know who is to be saved, so we reach out to save all.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[billwald]

>If that were the case, let's not send out missionaries and try to keep the gospel under wraps.

Regeneration precedes conversion. The purpose of missionaries is to welcome people into the Church Militant. We don't know whom God has regenerated. There are temporal benefits to church attendance for the unsaved as well as the regenerate.

>The scripture plainly teaches that we were condemned already.

Condemned at birth but the scripture doesn't provide a test for regeneration except good works.

 

[steaver]

>If that were the case, let's not send out missionaries and try to keep the gospel under wraps.

Regeneration precedes conversion. The purpose of missionaries is to welcome people into the Church Militant. We don't know whom God has regenerated. There are temporal benefits to church attendance for the unsaved as well as the regenerate.

>The scripture plainly teaches that we were condemned already.

Condemned at birth but the scripture doesn't provide a test for regeneration except good works.

I would say regeneration is conversion.

Lost people can do good works and saved people can do bad works. So works alone are not the best indicator of a person's salvation/regeneration. The personal test for regeneration is found in 2Cor 13:5 and Ro8:16.

2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

:jesus:

 

[Jim1999]

May I offer a personal expeerience? I grew up in the church and was taught the scriptures from a very early age. I attended a private church boarding school for boys. We learned scriptures on a regular basis. I always believed in Jesus and what the Bible taught. It was not until confirmation classes, however, that I learned to experience or realize the Christ as my personal Saviour. It was not a great emotional experience. It was a deep-felt personal experience made in my mind....and soul.

One can have all the intellectual knowledge of the scripture and believe in Christ without actually being saved. What is salvation based on? It must be more than head knowledge. It must be the hand of God in regeneration/salvation that brings him to a saving experience of His grace. He chose me. I didn't choose Him in salvation.

This, I find, fits in with scripture, and not me making some independent intellectual choice.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[steaver]

May I offer a personal expeerience? I grew up in the church and was taught the scriptures from a very early age. I attended a private church boarding school for boys. We learned scriptures on a regular basis. I always believed in Jesus and what the Bible taught. It was not until confirmation classes, however, that I learned to experience or realize the Christ as my personal Saviour. It was not a great emotional experience. It was a deep-felt personal experience made in my mind....and soul.

One can have all the intellectual knowledge of the scripture and believe in Christ without actually being saved. What is salvation based on? It must be more than head knowledge. It must be the hand of God in regeneration/salvation that brings him to a saving experience of His grace. He chose me. I didn't choose Him in salvation.

This, I find, fits in with scripture, and not me making some independent intellectual choice.

Cheers,

Jim

Thanks Jim, I always like testimonies. :thumbs:

I don't know though Jim. There is quite a bit of scripture telling folks to make a choice.

:jesus:

 

[RAdam]

Regeneration and conversion are two separate things. Regeneration is a one time event carried out by God and is always efficacious. One regenerated cannot fall finally away. Regeneration is not a process but rather an instantaneous event. Conversion, on the other hand, is very much a process, and its benefits are temporal.

 

[Enow]

Thanks Jim, I always like testimonies.

I don't know though Jim. There is quite a bit of scripture telling folks to make a choice.

The Lord told me one time to decide this day whom you will serve, the Lord Jesus Christ or something else in His name after reading that statement in the Upper Room or the Daily Bread reading booklet. That statement came right up at me as if meant for me to make that decision right then.

I answered, "You, of course," to Jesus, but I was led to believe that something was coming as there was a matter of urgency, and that even after I had answered, the urgency remained. So I prayed, "Please help me to do it." Then the urgency was gone.

A week later or two, ( this was in 1994) I was exposed to a church I was visiting where my aunt lives in Missouri while on vacation with my folks where the "holy laughter" movement was taking place. The Lord protected me as I felt being pushed from behind three times by an unseen hand where no one was behind me in the pew or the one after that to do it. I did not know what was going on, but later on, the Lord revealed through the David Wilkerson Newsletter the role of the Holy Ghost in according to the scriptures.

I thank the Lord for keeping me from falling in serving something else in His name which was not of the Lord, but the point is, when we make a decision, there is no power in that decision as we must live the christian life by faith in the Son of God in being Our Good Shepherd as well as Our Saviour. What is true for salvation is also true for living this christian life.

John 1: 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Galatians 2: 20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Philippians 1:6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: .... 9And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

1 John 3: 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Jude 1: 24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

:jesus::godisgood::thumbs::applause:

 

[Berean]

How can it be proven there are those who have never heard (proving a negative)? It's assumed as such...but can it be proven? No. Why debate on the "what if's"?

This is a direct quote from Billy Graham;
I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.