Those who have never heard

I don't believe the "calling" of the New Testament means simply hearing the gospel. I believe it is the inward call that regenerates, the circumcision of the heart.

No, obviously most people who have ever lived have never heard the gospel. But the Bible tells us that Christ has redeemed a people out of every nation, kindred, and tongue.

 

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Here you have it - The Truth and Nothing But The Truth​

John 1:1-9​

Time for bed - Everyone don't forget to pray for Bob. See everyone sometime tomorrow.

 

What you are proving, sir, is that there are myriad ways to pervert what the scriptures say!

You should be "keeping [guarding] the word of His patience," instead you are guarding the words of Calvinism!

skypair

 

oh, oh, watch out, Rippon, you've offended the Grand Bishop.

 

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Isa 52:10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

 

It would be helpful if you would explain how God has done that. I understand how God has manifested himself in creation. Now, how has every person without exception heard the gospel of Jesus Christ?

And, if they have, what is the purpose of sending missionaries?

 

Missionaries are one mean by which God uses to spread the Gospel. Revelation 14:6 shows an angel spreading the Gospel...so we know of at least two means. It is impossible to explain exactly how God "has done that". Likewise, it cannot be stated there will be people whe die who have never heard the Gospel. That is a conclusion that finite minds come to, and cannot be proven. I will take Scripture at face value, and It states Christ is the Light that lights ALL men.

 

My theory:

1) It is intuitive that there is a Creator.

2) It is intuitive that I/man am/are sinful and need to be foriven by my Creator.

3) If I accept my Creator's forgiveness then by default I accept the method by which he forgives me (i.e. applying the redeeming the blood of Christ to my soul).

4) If I accept my Creator's forgiveness then by default I put faith in His ability to forvige (i.e. Christ literally empowers God to forgive so Christ literally is His ability to forgive).

5) Therefore, the plan of salvation is intuitive.

6) This explains how God's plan of salvation really has appeared unto all men including the Israelites in the OT who had never heard the name of Christ much less the Romans Road.

Evangelistic regards,
Moi

 

I still stronly believe witnessing to be important because it's very easy to lie to one's self and "tune out" that which we know.

Further evangelistic regards,
Moi

 

One big problem with your theory is the account of Cornelius. He knew he was a sinner. He knew to worship the God of Israel. But, that was not enough. He had to hear the Gospel of the substitutionary death of the Lord Jesus, His death, and resurrection, according to the Scriptures. Or, why even bother with the appearance of the angel, the messengers to Joppa, the trip by Peter and the proclamation of the gospel.


Oh, and why do we send missionaries? Because it is commanded, not because it is necessary. God could mail them all gospel tracts, but that was not the command...


We preach the gospel to be obedient to the Lord, not to get men saved. Some will get saved, some will not. In either case, we preach the gospel to those who have never heard the specific details of how sinful man can approach a thrice holy Creator.

RJP

 

Let's think of this issue in terms of Providence. Is it scriptural and/or logical that God would not provide His elect with a Gospel witness? Surely He would.

The general revelation (nature) is sufficient to condemn, so that they are without excuse. But is has no saving power. The fallen nature of man necessitates that the very evidence by which they "know" God is in fact the evidence by which they are condemned. They "knew God", but "glorified him not as God, neither were they thankful". It does not say "but when they knew God, they were saved".

No one has ever been nor ever will be saved by general revelation. The Gospel, and only the Gospel, is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes.

 

Well argued JD. I believe philosopher Alvin Plantinga of Notre Dame has argued for salvation through general revelation.

 

With all due respect, rjprince, I feel you are misinterpreting that passage. But to determine if my reading is accurate:

1) Which specific point that I listed do you disagree with and why? I humbly request you reread the list. Please.

2) How do you account for OT salvation of Jews who had never heard the Gospel of Christ?

3) How "much" of the Gospel do I have to understand? The virgin birth is certainly a vital part of the Gospel. A child who doesn't understand the concept of virginity cannot truly be said to fully believe in the Gospel account. (You have to understand something in order to belive it.) So, again, how "much" of the Gospel do I have to understand: specifically, which details?

Please don't interpret this as a harsh interrogation. This is written from a man who once adamantly agreed with your perspective.

In Christ,
Moi

 

I don't think general revelation is what saves, but general revelation does not condemn. It's the rejection of it that condemns. What happens when a person accepts general revelation? Does God reveal more of Himself? I believe He does.

 

Great point Amy :thumbs: