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Thy Will be Done on Earth as it is in Heaven?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by InTheLight, Jun 28, 2015.

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  1. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven...

    Why did Jesus instruct us to pray this? If you are a Calvinist, isn't everything that happens on Earth, according to God's sovereign will? So why pray this?
     
    #1 InTheLight, Jun 28, 2015
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    My understanding is that it is a matter of the wills (God's will and man's will) and not an incantation to cause God to do something on earth. It is man submitting to the will of God, not man allowing God to do His will here on earth.
     
    #2 JonC, Jun 28, 2015
  3. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I don't see anything about "man's will" in the text. Furthermore, what does man's will have to do with whatever happens in Heaven?
     
    #3 InTheLight, Jun 28, 2015
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It has nothing to do with what happens in Heaven....that's the point.

    Your post assumes that Jesus instructed us to pray in order that God's purpose will be done on earth as it is done in heaven ("isn't everything that happens on earth according to God's sovereign will?"). I am not a Calvinist, but I do recognize that your conclusions take much for granted - on assumptions that are not warranted by the text. In other words, the instruction is more about us and less about what will happen in accordance with God's plan.
     
    #4 JonC, Jun 28, 2015
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Do you understand what the purpose of prayer is? Do you think it is to convince God to do something we want?
     
    #5 Revmitchell, Jun 28, 2015
  6. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    No, it is not to petition God to do something we want.
     
    #6 InTheLight, Jun 28, 2015
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    After having reread Jon's post it seems his Calvinism colored his response. I disagree with it.

    The issue here is not about man allowing God to do something. In fact such ideas are not even in view in that passage. When we pray we need to do so based on scripture and God's direction. Your question in the op could easily be directed at the rest of Jesus's teaching on prayer as well.

    God is sovereign and what He wants done will most certainly be done. Prayer is about our obedience to God and bringing our will to line up with His.
     
    #7 Revmitchell, Jun 28, 2015
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I'm not sure where we disagree (and I suppose it isn't important). I am not a Calvinist, but the following is exactly my point:

    Very well stated, Rev.
     
    #8 JonC, Jun 28, 2015
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I am glad we agree, where we disagree is the following:



    Not sure why that was necessary.
     
    #9 Revmitchell, Jun 28, 2015
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I do think that we agree, Rev. I am wrestling with a few issues, so please accept my apologies if I've diverted some emotions into this thread and clouded my reply.

    What I mean is that Jesus was not saying that our prayers allow God's will be done on earth as in Heaven. It is not up to us to permit God to execute His plans on Earth, as if it were a place not under His dominion.
     
    #10 JonC, Jun 28, 2015
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