Titanic theology

[J. Jump]

It is about 98% correct.

But that 2% was WAY off the mark though huh I never read it. I just remember it sitting in the pew in front of me.

 

[J. Jump]

Is this where you once again argue that no matter what scripture says you find no reason to accept the Bible truth that God CREATED all life on earth in 7 days???

Now you are changing your story. We were talking about creating the heavens and the earth not all life.

Absolutely God created life during those days. That's what the text SAYS.

Never does the text SAY I "created" the heavens and the earth.

BIG difference. You either don't see that or you are purposefully ignoring it like you do Ephesians 2:8-9. Have you ever eaten crow and admitted to a mistake in your interpretation of Scripture Bob? Or have you just always had it right?

 

[Ed Edwards]

But that 2% was WAY off the mark though huh I never read it. I just remember it sitting in the pew in front of me.

What most people missed was the nuclear war
between Russia & China on one side and the USofA
on the other side. The Rapture would take place
quietly in the midst of all those Nuclear Detonations
- cause the USopA is the most REAL christian nation
in the world. Unfortunately the author must have
missed out the fact that among those denoted as Christians,
Africa (mostly Sub-Sarahan Africa) passed North America
in total number in 1975. So such a theory doesn't fit
the facts. Surely there are enough Real Christians in Africa
that someone might notice them gone missin'???

 

[billwald]

I supposen then it must be Satan who is making peace and God who wants war so the Rapture can happen?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Here is what God says in His Holy Written Word
(here in red cause Jesus Himself said it:

Matthew 10:34 (KJV1611 Edition):
Thinke not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace, but a sword.

 

[webdog]

But nowhere in Scripture does it say those six days are six days of creation. God simply made a statement that He did it in verse 1. He didn't tell us how long He took.

If He did please provide the Scriptural evidence.


I know you and I don't agree on a lot of things, but this is something we do agree on. The six days talked about are six literal 24-hour days. However I find nowhere in Scripture that these six days are tied to creation.

I really have no idea how you can miss a very literal creation in a very literal 6 days. For Scripture, start at Genesis 1.

 

[J. Jump]

For Scripture, start at Genesis 1.

Can't tell you how many times I've read Genesis 1 and here's the only statement made about the creation of the heavens and the earth.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

That doesn't say how long He took. My guess is it really doesn't matter how long it took or He would have been very clear in telling us.

Now I know what you mean by your statement as you think the rest fo Genesis 1 describes the creation account. However Genesis 1:2 starts a new subject. It's not a continuation of verse one. Verse one is not a summary statement with details to follow.

Because of the attack from the unsaved and liberals and evolutionists about the truth of Scripture Genesis 1 has become a hot button issue within Christendom and it has become very emotional.

So anytime a suggestion is made outside of six days for creation and a day a rest people start to get defensive.

Not saying that you are, but just saying that's what happens within Christendom when you start talking about this issue, becuase it has been a hot button issue for so long now.

But if folks would step outside of the emotion and take a look at what the Scripture actually SAYS I think folks would see that the six days, while literal 24 hour days yes, are not six original creation days, but are days of redemption.

This line of thinking plays out in the rest of Scripture. If you would like some study material on the subject I would be more than happy to PM you with it.

Genesis 1 and the beginning of 2 is actually a beautiful word picture of redemption and lays out God's plan for the redemption of mankind. It is the foundation of Scripture and all Scriptural details somehow plug into these seven days.

When we see this God's Word becomes even more amazing.

 

[webdog]

Can't tell you how many times I've read Genesis 1 and here's the only statement made about the creation of the heavens and the earth.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

It's connected by "now"...verse 2 is a continuation of the preview and summary found in verse 1. Everything following is part of that.

 

[Ed Edwards]

I really have no idea how you can miss a very literal creation in a very literal 6 days. For Scripture, start at Genesis 1.

In the KJV there are many ANDs, some start sentences.
My secular 3rd grade teacher told me not to start
sentences with AND. What is going on here & what
does that have to do with Titanic theology? :tonofbricks:

 

[BobRyan]

It's connected by "now"...verse 2 is a continuation of the preview and summary found in verse 1. Everything following is part of that.

True. The "details" of God creating Sun and Moon and all life on earth etc are provided in that chronological sequence of 7 real days -- everything from creation of light to creation of God's day of worship for mankind.

Think about it - you have to START OUT wanting to ignore-it /down-size it/ edit it to spin it any other way.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[J. Jump]

It's connected by "now"...verse 2 is a continuation of the preview and summary found in verse 1. Everything following is part of that.

Well again you are partially correct. The possibility does exist that the waw in verse two is conjunctive. However the same possibility exists that the waw is disjunctive and could be translated "but" showing a disconnect.

So the argument will not be prove one way or the other from the text of Genesis 1, because both are legitimate translations. The rest of Scripture is what will tell us which translation is correct.

When we take the rest of Scripture it shows that the verses are disconnected.

I know this is going to be a very general explanation, but many complete books have been written on the subject.

But there is a disconnect between 1 and 2 because 1 is a complete statement of what happened. Then something happened between verse 1 and 2 that caused the earth to be found in the mess that it was in. So the picture that we see is God's redeeming a fall creation. And we have His timetable of how He is going to redeem another fallen creation ie mankind.

God worked six days and rested on the seventh. God is working another six days and will rest on the seventh with regard to mankind. This time however the work is 1,000 years in length. Peter tells us that with God one day is as a 1000 years and a 1000 years as one day. So man is in the process of being redeemed for six thousand years and God will rest on the seventh day which coincides with Christ's 1000-year reign. That is the seventh day of rest.

And if some folks would understand this timetable then these arguments of near and soon and all that would disappear. God said near, because 2000 years is just like 2 days to Him and so that is near on His timetable.

In the book of John we are given references to numbers of days on which things happened and such. And this corresponds with God's timetable.

For instance after six days on the seventh Peter, James and John were taken up on a high mountain and there Jesus was transfigured. This shows us that after six days or six thousand years Jesus' will come and establish His kingdom.

There's a lot more that could be said, but that's probably enough for now .

But Genesis 1 and the first part of two is a beautiful word picture of God's redeeming work and God's timetable as it concerns mankind.

 

[BobRyan]

In the KJV there are many ANDs, some start sentences.

My secular 3rd grade teacher told me not to start
sentences with AND. What is going on here & what
does that have to do with Titanic theology? :tonofbricks:

If God creates using "order" and "stewardship" and directy responsibility intead of "chaos" and "extermination, starvation, predation" then we who are His children should follow in like example. Trashing the earth that God made FOR us is to incur the wrath of God who said He would "Destroy those who destroy the earth".

Revelation 11:18
"And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."

 

[webdog]

When we take the rest of Scripture it shows that the verses are disconnected.

How so...and where? The fact alone God gave us this model (we are to works 6 days...rest on the seventh) goes to show His "work" took 6 days. If anything, Scripture supports a literal 6 day "work week".

 

[Ed Edwards]

'earth' is the hardware
'world' is the software

The 'new world order' is the software
that Satan would play on the 'earth' hardware.

It ain't going to happen much longer.

God will intervene in the affairs of mankind again.
It won't be pretty.
Saved folks don't have to go thru
THE Tribulation Period. (period)

 

[Ed Edwards]

27 each day of the Lord found:

Isa 13:6 (HCSB): Wail! For the day of the Lord is near.
It will come like destruction from the Almighty.

Isa 13:9 (HCSB): Look, the day of the Lord is coming-
cruel, with rage and burning anger-
to make the earth a desolation
and to destroy the sinners on it.

La 2:22 (HCSB): You summoned my attackers on every side,
as if [for] an appointed festival day;
on the day of the Lord's anger
no one escaped or survived.
My enemy has destroyed
those I nurtured and reared.

Eze 7:19 (HCSB): They will throw their silver into the streets,
and their gold will seem like something filthy.
Their silver and gold will be unable to save them
in the day of the Lord's wrath.
They will not satisfy their appetites
or fill their stomachs,
for these were the stumbling blocks
that brought about their iniquity.

Eze 13:5 (HCSB): You did not go up to the gaps or restore
the wall around the house of Israel so that it might stand in battle
on the day of the Lord.

Ho 9:5 (HCSB): What will you do on a festival day,
on the day of the Lord's feast?

Joe 1:15 (HCSB): Woe because of that day!
For the day of the Lord is near
and will come as devastation from the Almighty.

Joe 2:1 (HCSB): Blow the horn in Zion;
sound the alarm on My holy mountain!
Let all the residents of the land tremble,
for the day of the Lord is coming;
in fact, it is near-

Joe 2:11 (HCSB): The Lord raises His voice
in the presence of His army.
His camp is very large;
Those who carry out His command are powerful.
Indeed, the day of the Lord is terrible and dreadful -
who can endure it?

Joe 2:31 (HCSB): The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the great and awe inspiring day of the Lord comes.

Joe 3:14 (HCSB): Multitudes, multitudes
in the valley of decision!
For the day of the Lord is near
in the valley of decision.

Am 5:18 (HCSB): Woe to you who long for the day of the Lord!
What will the day of the Lord be for you?
It will be darkness and not light.

Am 5:20 (HCSB): Won't the day of the Lord
be darkness rather than light,
even gloom without any brightness in it?

Ob 1:15 (HCSB): For the day of the Lord is near,
against all the nations.
As you have done, so it will be done to you;
what you deserve will return on your own head.

Zep 1:7 (HCSB): Be silent in the presence of the Lord God,
for the day of the Lord is near.
Indeed, the Lord has prepared a sacrifice;
He has consecrated His guests.

Zep 1:8 (HCSB): On the day of the Lord's sacrifice
I will punish the officials, the king's sons,
and all who are dressed in foreign clothing.

Zep 1:14 (HCSB): The great day of the Lord is near,
near and rapidly approaching.
Listen, the day of the Lord-
there the warrior's cry is bitter.

Zep 1:18 (HCSB): Their silver and their gold
will not be able to rescue them
on the day of the Lord's wrath.
The whole earth will be consumed
by the fire of His jealousy.
For He will make a complete,
yes, a horrifying end
of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Zep 2:2 (HCSB): before the decree takes effect
and the day passes like chaff,
before the burning of the Lord's anger overtakes you,
before the day of the Lord's anger overtakes you.

Zep 2:3 (HCSB): Seek the Lord, all you humble of the earth,
who carry out what He commands.
Seek righteousness, seek humility;
perhaps you will be concealed
on the day of the Lord's anger.

Zec 14:1 (HCSB): A day of the Lord is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence.

Mal 4:5 (HCSB): Look, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes.

Ac 2:20 (HCSB): The sun will be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and remarkable day of the Lord comes;

1Co 5:5 (HCSB): turn that one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

1Th 5:2 (HCSB): For you yourselves know very well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.

2Th 2:2 (HCSB): not to be easily upset in mind or troubled, either by a spirit or by a message or by a letter as if from us, alleging that the day of the Lord has come.

2Pe 3:10 (HCSB): But the day of the Lord will come like a thief; on that day the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, the elements will burn and be dissolved, and the earth and the works on it will be disclosed.

3 each day of Christ found:

Php 1:6 (HCSB): I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Php 1:10 (HCSB): so that you can determine what really matters and can be pure and blameless in the day of Christ,

Php 2:16 (HCSB): Hold firmly the message of life. Then I can boast in the day of Christ that I didn't run in vain or labor for nothing.

3 each day of God found:

Job 20:28 (HCSB): The possessions in his house will be removed,
flowing away on the day of God's anger.

2Pe 3:12 (HCSB): as you wait for and earnestly desire the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be on fire and be dissolved, and the elements will melt with the heat.

Re 16:14 (HCSB): For they are spirits of demons performing signs, who travel to the kings of the whole world to assemble them for the battle of the great day of God, the Almighty.

7 each day of judgment found:

Mt 10:15 (HCSB): I assure you: It will be more tolerable
on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

Mt 11:22 (HCSB): But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.

Mt 11:24 (HCSB): But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."

Mt 12:36 (HCSB): I tell you that on the day of judgment people will have to account for every careless word they speak.

2Pe 2:9 (HCSB): then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment,

2Pe 3:7 (HCSB): But by the same word the present heavens and earth are held in store for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

1Jo 4:17 (HCSB): In this, love is perfected with us so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; for we are as He is in this world.

 

[J. Jump]

How so...and where?

Well I kind of laid that fondation in the previous post. If you want to go deeper then I would be more than happy to PM you with some resource material, but it would take too long to do any justice with that quesiton on the board. PM if you are interested.

The fact alone God gave us this model (we are to works 6 days...rest on the seventh) goes to show His "work" took 6 days. If anything, Scripture supports a literal 6 day "work week".

Absolutely! I agree with this 100%. His work took six days. The question is was His work original creation or was His work redemptive. I think the whole of Scripture says His six days of work was a work of redemption. He was redeeming a ruined creation.

It is a picture of His work in redeeming mankind which is a ruined creation.

He is currently again working six days (six thousand years) to redeem mankind. And He will rest from His work on the seventh day the 1,000-year reign of Christ which is representative of the seventh day.

There's really no way to argue that the six days are anything but six literal 24-hour days. The rub comes when we have to decide is God telling us that He took six days in the original creation of the heavens and earth or did His work consist of something after the original creation of the heavens and earth. I believe the evidence is overwhelming that His six-day work week was one of redemption not original creation.

 

[BobRyan]

Wildly imagining LIFE on earth BEFORE God created AND MADE LIFE on earth in those 6 days is to imagine "another God" and "another Genesis" and "another Creator".