Tithing and the Love of Money

[Crabtownboy]

I put this here as I want everyone to be able to respond. I believe that many who are so adamant against the idea of tithing are guilty of the love of money. The Bible has a lot to say about money. Many of Jesus' parables concern money. There is even good investing advice in the Bible. The love, lust, for money leads to destruction. The right attitude about money and giving leads to blessings.

Just a few thoughts.

Many quote the saying, "Money is the route of all evil". This is incorrect. Paul never said that. Rather the proper quote is I Timothy 6:9-10. Verse 9 has to be included for a proper understanding of what Paul is talking about.

New International Version, I Timothy 6:9-10
9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

This is one place The Message gets closer to the truth than many other translations as the Greek word translated "love" by many has changed in meaning. Originally the Greek word was more like "lust".

1 Timothy 6:9-10
The Message (MSG)
9-10 But if it’s only money these leaders are after, they’ll self-destruct in no time. Lust for money brings trouble and nothing but trouble. Going down that path, some lose their footing in the faith completely and live to regret it bitterly ever after.

Then Malachi 3:8-11 puts it tithing in its proper perspective. I fear far too many Christians do not really believe what Malachi says that giving brings blessings.

The New International Version
8-11 “Begin by being honest. Do honest people rob God? But you rob me day after day.

“You ask, ‘How have we robbed you?’

“The tithe and the offering—that’s how! And now you’re under a curse—the whole lot of you—because you’re robbing me. Bring your full tithe to the Temple treasury so there will be ample provisions in my Temple. Test me in this and see if I don’t open up heaven itself to you and pour out blessings beyond your wildest dreams. For my part, I will defend you against marauders, protect your wheat fields and vegetable gardens against plunderers.” The Message of God-of-the-Angel-Armies.

Again The Message gets it right here:

Malachi 3:8-11 The Message
“Begin by being honest. Do honest people rob God? But you rob me day after day.

“You ask, ‘How have we robbed you?’

“The tithe and the offering—that’s how! And now you’re under a curse—the whole lot of you—because you’re robbing me. Bring your full tithe to the Temple treasury so there will be ample provisions in my Temple. Test me in this and see if I don’t open up heaven itself to you and pour out blessings beyond your wildest dreams. For my part, I will defend you against marauders, protect your wheat fields and vegetable gardens against plunderers.” The Message of God-of-the-Angel-Armies.

King James lays it out quite clear also.

Malachi 3:8-11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. 10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. 11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

 

[JonC]

I think that you are right for some. They do not want to give so they justify it by dismissing the tithe. But it goes both ways. Others do not agree with the tithe but instead believe that everything we own and are belong to God in a special sense (we have counted all things lost - repented of our own righteousness and will - and now live for Christ and Christ in us - we are bought with a price and are not our own, etc).

In other words, the argument could also be that some hold to the command of a 10% tithe out of their love of money - they legalistically give 10% but cling to the 90% as their own.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I think that you are right for some. They do not want to give so they justify it by dismissing the tithe. But it goes both ways. Others do not agree with the tithe but instead believe that everything we own and are belong to God in a special sense (we have counted all things lost - repented of our own righteousness and will - and now live for Christ and Christ in us - we are bought with a price and are not our own, etc).

In other words, the argument could also be that some hold to the command of a 10% tithe out of their love of money - they legalistically give 10% but cling to the 90% as their own.

I agree with you. Actually my personal belief is that a tithe is the minimum and that should go to your local church. Think about it. All a group needs is ten tithing individuals or families and a new church can be begun and the word spread even further.

I personally believe the second tithe should go into savings and investments. There are two primary reasons for this:

1. So when I become elderly and in need I will not place a financial burdon on anyone.
   [*]So that I can help those in need that God brings into my life.

I believe in what I call paying forward. Paying forward is helping someone and telling them not to repay me, but to help someone in the future that God brings into their life ... and then they are to tell that person to help someone in the future. That way it is possible that people in need long after my death will be helped by someone not even born yet.

 

[BobRyan]

I think that you are right for some. They do not want to give so they justify it by dismissing the tithe. But it goes both ways. Others do not agree with the tithe but instead believe that everything we own and are belong to God in a special sense

What is interesting is that per-capita giving among those who reject tithe because they are supposedly willing to give 100% - is less than congregations that tithe.

Perhaps the 100% was just the "excuse" -- not to be taken seriously.

Both groups in fact claim that all that we have is Christ's "to live is Christ to die is gain". Both groups claim that we are just stewards of the gifts God Himself has given.

Yet per-capita giving "in real life" is higher on average for congregations that accept the Bible doctrine on not robbing God. Malachi 3.

What is actually surprising is that congregations that tithe sometimes report that non-members send in tithe because they claim the Malachi 3 Bible principle works for them even as non-Christians.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[JonC]

What is interesting is that per-capita giving among those who reject tithe because they are supposedly willing to give 100% - is less than congregations that tithe.

Perhaps the 100% was just the "excuse" -- not to be taken seriously.

Both groups in fact claim that all that we have is Christ's "to live is Christ to die is gain". Both groups claim that we are just stewards of the gifts God Himself has given.

Yet per-capita giving "in real life" is higher on average for congregations that accept the Bible doctrine on not robbing God. Malachi 3.

What is actually surprising is that congregations that tithe sometimes report that non-members send in tithe because they claim the Malachi 3 Bible principle works for them even as non-Christians.

in Christ,

Bob

I agree. If it is presented that we are legalistically bound to a tithe I think that it will be observed to a greater extent than "sacrificial giving." I am not surprised that non-Christians and non-members tithe. This principle can also be seen, I believe, in the works of religions who practice a "works based salvation."

I don't know that the 100% is merely an excuse - I actually do not have evidence of what they give or what tithers give - and I am not saying that those who reject the tithe do so because they believe they are paid for with a price and wholly belong to Christ. Instead, perhaps most reject the tithe because they don't think that it is a requirement and they simply don't give (which not only is a rejection of the tithe but also of the biblical principle which the tithe represents).

I don't think churches should preach tithing based on its results insofar as how many people will give, or how much they will give. I don't think that it is necessarily a matter of "the love of money." But if a church does not believe in tithing as a NT command they certainly are wrong if they do not recognize the principle of the tithe - which if taken as OT legalism it would only be a shadow of sacrificial giving (not only in principle, but also in the amount belonging to God).

 

[Crabtownboy]

What is interesting is that per-capita giving among those who reject tithe because they are supposedly willing to give 100% - is less than congregations that tithe.

Perhaps the 100% was just the "excuse" -- not to be taken seriously.

That is possible. If it is used as an excuse it is a misunderstanding of scripture.

Both groups in fact claim that all that we have is Christ's "to live is Christ to die is gain". Both groups claim that we are just stewards of the gifts God Himself has given.

I agree with that sentence, but possibly not in the way some carry out that belief in their life.

Yet per-capita giving "in real life" is higher on average for congregations that accept the Bible doctrine on not robbing God. Malachi 3.

I do not find that surprising.

What is actually surprising is that congregations that tithe sometimes report that non-members send in tithe because they claim the Malachi 3 Bible principle works for them even as non-Christians.

in Christ,

Bob

To me, they are misreading what God really meant in Malachi. I've never heard of a non-Christian tithing. There is a middle-aged man and women who stop by our church occasionally, always in the parking lot, and hand five or ten dollars to someone walking to the church and asking them to drop it in the collection plate. They always say something like, "use it for good". I do not know why they never come to the church.

Lust or greed is one of the seven deadly sins and it is not restricted to the physical.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[steaver]

I've never heard of a non-Christian tithing.

You probably mean "non-religious". Look how rich the Mormon church is because they demand tithing for holiness, and they are non-Christian. Same goes for the Jehovah Witnesses.

Are they blessed? Or are they rich thieves? We must be careful to judge a person's blessedness according to their bank accounts. I know some VERY poor tithers.

 

[Crabtownboy]

We must be careful to judge a person's blessedness according to their bank accounts. I know some VERY poor tithers.

I agree. I would never advocate the "wealth gospel". I do believe those who give will be blessed. It may not be with material things, their blessings will be in other areas.

 

[annsni]

I'm grateful that God has blessed me with 90%. That's very generous of Him!

 

[BobRyan]

Some trends.

1985 article:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...2120437_1_adventists-tithing-smaller-churches



ARticle from 1985
Members Of Tiny Churches Think Big On Giving

June 28, 1985|By George R. Plagenz. Scripps-Howard News Service.
Smaller is bigger when it comes to church giving.



In the faiths with the smallest memberships, the most generous givers are found.
While the per capita annual contribution in the Protestant denomination with the largest membership--the 14.1 million-member Southern Baptist Church
--is $237.50, the average yearly contribution of a member of the Evangelical Mennonite Brethren Conference, a church with the smallest membership in the United States (2,094 members), is $997.56.



That is the largest average per capita contribution among the 40 denominations reporting 1983 giving statistics to the National Council of Churches.

The Seventh-Day Adventists, who rank 11th in size of membership (4.7M in 1985), are second in per capita giving--$749.08

Today the wikipedia charts show Southern Baptists at [FONT=&quot]15,978,112 in 2011 as compared to 14.1 M in 1985.

The latest stats for Seventh-day Adventists for 2011 - at [/FONT] 17,479,890

So the argument that smaller size was making the difference - no longer holds.

I think it is the doctrine on Tithe that is one of the distinguishing differences.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Crabtownboy and others,

In my fellowship we do not tithe, neither do we have a paid ministry that to some extent necessitates tithing. In OT times the tribe of Levi ministered to the rest of the nation and needed the tithe to continue the Temple and other services. I do not think NT Christians are under the system of tithing as there does not seem to be the same structure in the early NT times. I cannot find any such commandment.

I personally see the need to give to all the aspects of our meeting and its outreach, but also like the idea of contributing specifically to the individual needs as they occur. In our meeting we have different collections, some regular, others occasional, as well as the “General Collection”. In other words I prefer to spend on some causes more than others.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[steaver]

Today the wikipedia charts show Southern Baptists at [FONT=&quot]15,978,112 in 2011 as compared to 14.1 M in 1985.

The latest stats for Seventh-day Adventists for 2011 - at [/FONT]17,479,890

So the argument that smaller size was making the difference - no longer holds.

I think it is the doctrine on Tithe that is one of the distinguishing differences.

in Christ,

Bob

I agree. I would suggest that if the evangelical churches launched a campaign to educate their congregations on the NT doctrine of giving as opposed to the OT doctrine on the Tithe, we would see the giving of these churches explode far beyond the churches who's doctrine is the Tithe. Those who teach the doctrine of the Tithe are actually holding back the giving power Jesus unleashed in the NT. It gives the congregation a sense of 10% is what makes God happy, and for some faith plus works churches, helps keep me saved.

 

[webdog]

I'm thankful I know the true purpose and intent of the tithe, and that I am not under the bondage of the law to adhere to it :smilewinkgrin:

I took the "Malachi Challenge" years ago, BTW, on urging by my former pastor. Almost lost everything. Theory debunked. At that point I looked into NT giving.

 

[steaver]

I'm thankful I know the true purpose and intent of the tithe, and that I am not under the bondage of the law to adhere to it :smilewinkgrin:

I took the "Malachi Challenge" years ago, BTW, on urging by my former pastor. Almost lost everything. Theory debunked. At that point I looked into NT giving.

Amen dog! I did the same thing and simply went deeper and deeper into a financial hole.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I'm thankful I know the true purpose and intent of the tithe, and that I am not under the bondage of the law to adhere to it :smilewinkgrin:

I took the "Malachi Challenge" years ago, BTW, on urging by my former pastor. Almost lost everything. Theory debunked. At that point I looked into NT giving.

I've never heard of the "Malachi Challenge". Would you explain it to me?

 

[steaver]

I've never heard of the "Malachi Challenge". Would you explain it to me?

Mal3:10 - is plucked out of it's context and applied to the individual believer in the NT church.

"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."

 

[webdog]

I've never heard of the "Malachi Challenge". Would you explain it to me?

What Steaver said, more specifically the bolded...

Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, That there may be food in My house, And try Me now in this," Says the Lord of hosts, "If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will not be room enough to receive it.

 

[Crabtownboy]

What Steaver said, more specifically the bolded...

Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, That there may be food in My house, And try Me now in this," Says the Lord of hosts, "If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will not be room enough to receive it.

I believe that, but I do not believe that will necessarily mean blessings in material things. That would be a prosperity gospel which I believe is an error.

 

[webdog]

I believe that, but I do not believe that will necessarily mean blessings in material things. That would be a prosperity gospel which I believe is an error.

Well, the context of the verse is dealing with material things. You don't need a bigger storehouse or need to worry about existing room in your storehouse on spiritual blessings

This also brings up the point the storehouse was used for grain, not money.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Well, the context of the verse is dealing with material things. You don't need a bigger storehouse or need to worry about existing room in your storehouse on spiritual blessings

This also brings up the point the storehouse was used for grain, not money.

I guess I do not interpret the passage literally. It is obvious, just look around the world, that if we take the passage literally it does not work out.