To Be a Baptist, or Not To Be - That is the Question?

[righteousdude2]

AMEN

I want to thank the Moderator of this board for making a gutsy stand in regard to this tacky issue. I have read with interest, this ongoing bickering, and saw it as sin. The kind of sin that comes from Baptists being to Judgmental and Arrogant as they hold their doctrinal teachings so tight, the hearts become rigid, and stone-cold!

I am an Ordained Southern Baptist Pastor :godisgood: , but currently attend a non-denominational church for the same reasons as Isaiah40:28. I make no apologies. The Baptist churches in my area are going easy on homosexuals coming into the congregation, and I refuse to worship where a known sin is being allowed to openly serve the congregation.

I visit Southern Baptist churches all over the area, I am just not making anyone church my home due to the homosexual thing and the in-fighting over the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

I want to worship God in a place that is not up-in-arms- over silly little theological issues. I hope this doesn't preclude me from posting. If it does, than I will leave that particular board, but, it doesn't mean I'll like it, and it will not have anything to do with my status as a Southern Baptist Pastor!

What say you?

Pastor Paul [Calvinist all the way - once saved, always saved!] :type:

 

[npetreley]

I'll second that Amen. I used to live in an area where the closest Reformed Baptist church was over an hour away, and it wasn't a very good church, so it wasn't worth the drive (they were in the middle of toning down their mission statement to avoid scaring away people). All the other Baptist churches I checked out that were closer were "feel-good" churches converting to Rick Warrenism, and where sound doctrine and Biblical teaching took a back seat to making the women cry when they sang the top 40 praise and worship songs. Small wonder there were no men at the Sunday evening services (except for 1-3 hen-pecked husbands). I still attended a Baptist church back then, but if I had to do it all over again, I'd look for a good reformed church of any denomination over the crappy Baptist selections I had. Praise God there's are some good Baptist churches nearby now.

 

[Palatka51]

I'll third that Amen! There are just to many compromises these days that ignor "Go and sin no more!" for the sake of keeping or gaining numbers.

 

[righteousdude2]

The Rick Warrenisms is Another Post

This fascination with Rick Warren is another issues that should be discussed on a post. The only problem with the church I attend is their total dependence upon Warren's Bible studies. We hold 6 week studies twice a year, and they used Rick's studies the last two times, and while everyone liked them, I thought they were Biblically shallow, and too much into the "feel good" theology. It was like listening to Joel Osteen.

I'm not trying to be judgmental, but, I have my concerns, and I don't feel comfortable with "tickle the ears" theology. Fire and brimstone that reaches into the heart and causes a stir of our spirit that leads to growth and change is what is needed, and seems to be danced around more often than not in most churches today.

Shalom,

Pastor Paul

 

[Ed Edwards]

yadda - yadda - yadda

- Deacon Ed [Calvinist: no way - once saved, always saved!!] :type:

 

[Tom Butler]

I want to worship God in a place that is not up-in-arms- over silly little theological issues.

What silly little theological issues? Care to be specific?

 

[blackbird]

This fascination with Rick Warren is another issues that should be discussed on a post. The only problem with the church I attend is their total dependence upon Warren's Bible studies. We hold 6 week studies twice a year, and they used Rick's studies the last two times, and while everyone liked them, I thought they were Biblically shallow, and too much into the "feel good" theology. It was like listening to Joel Osteen.

I'm not trying to be judgmental, but, I have my concerns, and I don't feel comfortable with "tickle the ears" theology. Fire and brimstone that reaches into the heart and causes a stir of our spirit that leads to growth and change is what is needed, and seems to be danced around more often than not in most churches today.

Shalom,

Pastor Paul

I can assure you, Pastor Paul ---- that "Rick Warren theology" is not just limited to the confines of any particular Southern Baptist church. Purpose driven has been driven into the hearts of non-denominational church members as well

To go "cold turkey" on the SBC in your area just because 2-3 SB churches have allowed the Purpose books leach on to their regular Bible Studies---is not much of an excuse to leave

I mean---dude---you're the pastor of the church---all you have to do is JUST NOT allow the books into your church's teaching arena---just tell the leadership underneath you

"We ain't doin' RW!!! Period!!!"

And then take it upon yourself to give your SBC church something worth coming back for---give them good Godly doctrine "From your mind to theirs" ---- give them good solid biblical preaching---Bible Book series---book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse, word by word---those who are hungry for the word will fatten themselves up---those who aren't hungry will go somewhere else and leach on to the RW books and shrivle up on the bone like the famined bovine of Joseph's dream

Don't leave because of RW books----rather STAY and give them the "real book"

Your Southern Baptist preacher friend,
Bro. David
SBC pastor/preacher---20 years experience---If I weren't Southern Baptist---I'd be ashamed!!!!

 

[npetreley]

To go "cold turkey" on the SBC in your area just because 2-3 SB churches have allowed the Purpose books leach on to their regular Bible Studies---is not much of an excuse to leave

I mean---dude---you're the pastor of the church---all you have to do is JUST NOT allow the books into your church's teaching arena---just tell the leadership underneath you

"We ain't doin' RW!!! Period!!!"

And then take it upon yourself to give your SBC church something worth coming back for---give them good Godly doctrine "From your mind to theirs" ---- give them good solid biblical preaching---Bible Book series---book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse, word by word---those who are hungry for the word will fatten themselves up---those who aren't hungry will go somewhere else and leach on to the RW books and shrivle up on the bone like the famined bovine of Joseph's dream

Don't leave because of RW books----rather STAY and give them the "real book"

I have no idea what it would be like for a pastor, but it's nearly impossible to disagree with Rick Warren and stay at a Warrenized church. They marginalize you and pretend you don't exist. From what I understand, this is actually a deliberate practice to get rid of those who don't want to jump on board the Purpose-Driven bandwagon. But deliberate or not, they do it.

Righeousdude2, there have been a few threads on Rick Warren already. I taught a Bible study based on the 40 days of purpose before I realized it was going to become a movement, and I spent more time correcting the book than teaching it. His Biblical practices are worse than loose. He uses several logical fallacies and cherry-picks translations for obscurity in order to make Scripture mean what he wants it to mean. I sent him a letter pointing out some of the dramatic flaws in his reasoning but never got a response.

 

[bound]

This fascination with Rick Warren is another issues that should be discussed on a post. The only problem with the church I attend is their total dependence upon Warren's Bible studies. We hold 6 week studies twice a year, and they used Rick's studies the last two times, and while everyone liked them, I thought they were Biblically shallow, and too much into the "feel good" theology. It was like listening to Joel Osteen.

Pray for me Paster...

Wasn't it our Apostle Paul who said that some could only have 'milk' because 'meat' was too much for them because they were still carnal? Perhaps in time these congregations will feast on meat...

If there condition is too weak for such things then milk would be the recommended diet until they were stronger in the Lord.

Is it possible Paster that you might be letting your Pride in feasting on 'meat' get in your way in serving 'these little ones'? I'm just asking for you to perhaps give that some thought before you discard them in their weakened state for healthier congregations. Remember, Christ came to heal sinners not the righteous.

I'm not trying to be judgmental, but, I have my concerns, and I don't feel comfortable with "tickle the ears" theology. Fire and brimstone that reaches into the heart and causes a stir of our spirit that leads to growth and change is what is needed, and seems to be danced around more often than not in most churches today.

Perhaps you are right but as a paster you are called to 'feed his sheep' and the proper diet is determined by their state in the Lord or out of the Lord. I'd ask that you give some thought to why you feel these congregations need 'Fear and Self-loathing' to turn to the Lord and not a diet which will strengthen them until they can walk in the Lord in Love (for in Love there is no Fear).

Takecare and God Bless.

 

[webdog]

What silly little theological issues? Care to be specific?

You know... like speaking in tongues, private prayer languages, and being thrown in the Spirit.

 

[webdog]

I have no idea what it would be like for a pastor, but it's nearly impossible to disagree with Rick Warren and stay at a Warrenized church. They marginalize you and pretend you don't exist. From what I understand, this is actually a deliberate practice to get rid of those who don't want to jump on board the Purpose-Driven bandwagon. But deliberate or not, they do it.

From what I have seen, this is about as far from the truth as you can get. I'm not saying there aren't isolated incidences, but to lump all churches that use PDL material is crazy. We used PDL material for a few years (don't anymore), and our church never exhibited this behavior.

 

[Tom Bryant]

If you want ostracism, try saying that you like Rick Warren in an independent Baptist church:laugh:

 

[Joe]

I have no idea what it would be like for a pastor, but it's nearly impossible to disagree with Rick Warren and stay at a Warrenized church. They marginalize you and pretend you don't exist. From what I understand, this is actually a deliberate practice to get rid of those who don't want to jump on board the Purpose-Driven bandwagon. But deliberate or not, they do it.

I have heard this many times (What I bolded above). RW's first church plant, or one of the first, is here in our town. I also got this impression from reading his book "The Purpose Driven Church". Now that's an eye opener! Oh my!

Righeousdude2, there have been a few threads on Rick Warren already. I taught a Bible study based on the 40 days of purpose before I realized it was going to become a movement, and I spent more time correcting the book than teaching it. His Biblical practices are worse than loose. He uses several logical fallacies and cherry-picks translations for obscurity in order to make Scripture mean what he wants it to mean. I sent him a letter pointing out some of the dramatic flaws in his reasoning but never got a response.

I also lead a study on it while I was a new Christian. You are correct in your assessments. It's sad.

I brought many new people to church, still do. So they asked me to lead this PDL study, and invite my friends. I had 1/3 of the book marked up. Pastor listened to my concerns, he was beginning to have concerns also. They quit using that book.
The discouraging part was learning that Pastors all over the world were encouraging new Christians to read this book.

Yet imo, the RW chruch plant here in town produces some very solid Christians. The one's I have encountered appear to be Christlike.

 

[pinoybaptist]

When you say homosexuals coming in to the congregation, do you mean they are becoming baptized members ?

 

[righteousdude2]

I Can't Comment Any further.....sorry!

When you say homosexuals coming in to the congregation, do you mean they are becoming baptized members ?

I don't think I want to get into this argument. I just know that some churches allow active gays to work side by side with church members at work days, on some committees, etc.

For me, this is wrong. I know the pastor is trying to get them into the pew in order to get Jesus into their heart. It's just not my cup of tea.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I don't think I want to get into this argument.

I'm not trying to draw you into an argument, I simply asked an honest question due to my limited English ability.

I do not approve of the so-called "gay" lifestyle. However, if they want to attend church as opposed to join the church I find nothing wrong with that, they can sit there and squirm if it so happens the Holy Spirit gave the preacher the topic of homosexuality to preach on.

I just know that some churches allow active gays to work side by side with church members at work days, on some committees, etc.

Now that is not right, whether they are baptized members or not, because that identifies the church to the public as pro-gay, liberal, and all that, and how in heaven's name will they preach on sin, any sin, at all ?

For me, this is wrong. I know the pastor is trying to get them into the pew in order to get Jesus into their heart. It's just not my cup of tea.

Get them saved, yeah, I know what you're saying. Help God arrange circumstances so He can get a crack at them sinners. What's He gon' do without 'em soul winning former sinner dudes, eh ? He's gonna be absolutely powerless.

 

[righteousdude2]

Great Response - No Argument Here

Thanks for the honest answer. The problem is, when you ask for volunteers, and they step up to the plate, how can you send them on their way without being accused of bias or prejudice?

But you are right....I love sinners in the church, because it is the only way for them to hear of God's love for them and get them saved, baptized and living for Him. AMEN....

Pastor Paul

I'm not trying to draw you into an argument, I simply asked an honest question due to my limited English ability.

I do not approve of the so-called "gay" lifestyle. However, if they want to attend church as opposed to join the church I find nothing wrong with that, they can sit there and squirm if it so happens the Holy Spirit gave the preacher the topic of homosexuality to preach on.



Now that is not right, whether they are baptized members or not, because that identifies the church to the public as pro-gay, liberal, and all that, and how in heaven's name will they preach on sin, any sin, at all ?



Get them saved, yeah, I know what you're saying. Help God arrange circumstances so He can get a crack at them sinners. What's He gon' do without 'em soul winning former sinner dudes, eh ? He's gonna be absolutely powerless.

 

[righteousdude2]

Clarification on Post Comment

AMEN

I visit Southern Baptist churches all over the area, I am just not making anyone church my home due to the homosexual thing and the in-fighting over the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

:type:

I need to clear up my comment about the homosexual thing. What I meant was: there is tremendous pressure on all denominations to license and ordain homosexuals, and I've seen, in the paper, that this pressure is coming down on more and more conferences during their yearly conventions.

I also have tremendous concern, as I said earlier, that churches are allowing homosexuals to volunteer and serve on their committees. Sure, it may be just the set up and clean up committee today, but, what happens tomorrow when the gays pressure the local church to allow them to do more than the muscle jobs?

I hope this clears up the comment I features in the quote above....I am concerned with all churches today, because their teachings against homosexuality is falling by the wayside, as they license and ordain gays that "promise" they'll be celibate. And if that is possible, I have a bridge in San Francisco to sell you, cheap! I think the church needs to be real, and not wishy-washy when it comes to what the Bible teaches about homosexuality. The need to be politically correct is not Biblical, and it is just another door that the devil uses to enter the the gate and kill the sheep.


Pastor Paul