To SDA, question of Colossians 2:16

[DeafPosttrib]

BobRyan,

I have a question for you.

My friend and I have been debate on sabbath through emails.

This morning, I received email form him. He told me of Colossians 2:16. It proved us that, we do not keep sabbath.

But, this verse doesn't suggest us that, we do not keep sabbath. Paul told us, to respect them do observe these things, because of theses are a SHADOW of things(O.T.) which are speak of Jesus Christ.

I would like to hear your comment on Colossians 2:8. Hope hear from you soon. Thanks.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[BobRyan]

Col 2 tells us that the Shadow Sabbaths (those in Lev 23 that are centered in animal sacrifices that point forward as a shadow to the death of Christ) are simply types pointing to Christ.

We can all agree there.

In Exodus 20:8-11 we are given the text of Christ the creator's MEMORIAL Sabbath pointing BACK to Creation. And we find it "first made holy" in Gen 2:3-4 long before animal sacrifices and sin. Pointing BACK to the work of christ in creation - not pointing forward at all.

So when it comes to the "Shadow Sabbaths" of Col 2 - we can all agree. The sacrifices are ended at the cross according to Heb 10 so the shadows that contained them and pointed forward to Christ are also ended.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Alcott]

No differention of sabbath days is made in that verse; not "shadow sabbaths" and "creation sabbaths," unless there were also shadow new moons and creation new moons, or shadow kosher and creation kosher.

 

[BobRyan]

"Which are mere shadows of things to come" is the part of Col 2 that makes it clear - they are talking about the Shadow Sabbaths - the annual Sabbaths of Lev 23. As Paul says in 1 Cor 5 "Christ our PASSOVER has been slain".

That much is clear.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Matt Henry on Col 2:16
Verse 16. Let no man-judge you in meat, or in drink
The apostle speaks here in reference to some particulars of the hand-writing of ordinances, which had been taken away, viz., the distinction of meats and drinks, what was clean and what unclean, according to the law; and the necessity of observing certain holydays or festivals, such as the new moons and particular sabbaths, or those which should be observed with more than ordinary solemnity; all these had been taken out of the way and nailed to the cross, and were no longer of moral obligation. There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. As it is a type of that rest which remains for the people of God, of an eternity of bliss, it must continue in full force till that eternity arrives; for no type ever ceases till the antitype be come. Besides, it is not clear that the apostle refers at all to the Sabbath in this place, whether Jewish or Christian; his σαββατων, of sabbaths or weeks, most probably refers to their feasts of weeks, of which much has been said in the notes on the Pentateuch.

http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=col&chapter=002

John Gill on Col 2:14

http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/geb/view.cgi?book=col&chapter=002&verse=014

the whole law of Moses is intended, which was the handwriting of God, and obliged to obedience to it, and to punishment in case of disobedience; and this the Jews F26 call (bwx) (rjv) , "the writing of the debt", and is the very phrase the Syriac version uses here: now this was as a debt book, which showed and testified the debts of men; that is, their sins, how many they are guilty of, and what punishment is due unto them: and may well be said to be that

 

[BobRyan]

The Law of God written on the heart under the terms of the Gospel.

the OT scripture "INSPIRED by God and used for Doctrine and instruction" 2Tim3:16...

And the DEBT that the Law says we owe (our Ticket - our Bill, or certificate of debt) nailed to the Cross - but not the Word of God Nailed to the Cross!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Alcott]

, it is not clear that the apostle refers at all to the Sabbath in this place, whether Jewish or Christian; his σαββατων, of sabbaths or weeks, most probably refers to their feasts of weeks, of which much has been said in the notes on the Pentateuch.

You wear glasses with a lens filter that obstructs you from seeing any scripture except the way you have been taught and have already made up your mind. The first Christians also had this trouble, judging Peter for sharing the Word with gentiles, even eating with them. Pete, of course, had a little trouble being convinced himself in the first place, and still found it hard years later at the meeting at Antioch.

 

[BobRyan]

I believe you are quoting Matthew Henry. He is a sunday keeping Christian.

 

[Eliyahu]

Bob, can you post the exact article on the Constantine when he declared that all the officers should take rest on the Day of Holy Sun? It might be around 321 AD, March 7 or so. I cannot remember the exact article and the source. ( any supporting documents are important).

I am not prejudiced to either side of Sabbath or Sunday worship, but I believe the Sabbath itself is still Saturday ( exactly from Friday even to Sat even) and God delights in His Sabbath still.

My recent discovery was Exodus 23:12 which says we should take rest so that we can be refreshed. Our Spirit and souls are designed to take rest on Sabbath day, not any other human designed day. This might need some further meditation remembering the 8th day Circumcision. The scientific study shows that Vitamin K is produced incredibly, maybe 1000% of normal days, on the 7-8 th day after birth, so that the cut wounds from the circumcision may be healed immediately. Likewise the human body system is not changed but designed to take rest on Sabbath Day.

I am basically a believer that every day of 7 days a week is the Sabbath in Jesus christ and there is no differentiation among the days. However, I realize I have to choose a certain day for the worship service, then can hardly avoid the burden of choice. Anyway I am generous to any party on this matter.

 

[Eliyahu]

OOOPS! Double Post!

 

[Alcott]

I believe you are quoting Matthew Henry. He is a sunday keeping Christian.

I was not quoting anyone; and for the record, I don't bother reading these long copy & pastes you whitewash this subject with. Use your own words; don't tray to indicate "This guy says this about it, and heee's just plain infallible."

 

[DeafPosttrib]

BobRyan,

I did look in Matthew Henry Commentary book on Colossians 2:16. He say nothing on sabbath.

You qouted Matthew Henry's comment on Col. 2:16.

But, I looked at Matt Henry commentary on verse 16. He say nothing.

You gave the link of commenatery. That is from Adam Clarke Commentary. Exactly, what Adam said as, you quoted his comment when you post it here.

Let see what Matthew Henry said of Col. 2:16:

"[Italic]MUch of the ceremonies of the law of Moese consisted in the distinction of meats and days...but here the apostle shows that since Christ has come, and has cancelled the ceremonial law, we ought not to keep it up. ...[/Italic]

Clear, Matthew Henry was NOT a sabbath keeping.

During early Church, there were problems among Christians, that Jews urged them to do Mosiac Law and ceremonial laws. Paul told them, to put focus on Jesus Christ, because he nailed them on the cross, he fulfilled them. All of these shadows are speak of Jesus Christ.

But, nowhere in the New Testament books that, it suggests us, we do not have to obey the Ten Commandments, include 4th commandment.

I think, there is much confusion on 'laws' and 'the law'. True, we are saved by the grace, not of works, and we are saved not by under the law. I think the laws are mirror showing us that we are all guilt and sinner.

Also, I did read in book of Acts. It doesn't saying that the Early Church switched from sabbath to Sunday as service.

Acts 20:7 doesn't suggest us that, it is the proof that the early church service on Sunday. It mentioned only once in Acts. Paul preached his sermon all day till midnight. Today, most churches don't do that.

1 Cor. 16:1-3 say nothing of 'service' or 'tithe'. This passage is talking about collection. I BELIEVE Paul was rested on sabbath, the day before he return back to work on the first day of the week for to gathering things and bring them on a long journey to Jerusalem. No doubt, I am sure that, Paul did obeyed the fourth commandment.

There is no clear proof or evidence find anywhere in the New Testament showing that the early church switched from sabbath to Sunday for worshipping service.

I rather stick with God's Word than, listening to any man's saying according Colossians 2:8.

My feel that every Christian ought to take rest on Saturday, by obey the fourth commandment.

Nothing find anywhere in the New Testament suggest us that we should have service on Sunday.

So, the debate on Sunday and Saturday is endless forever and ever till Christ comes.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DQuixote]

There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. As it is a type of that rest which remains for the people of God, of an eternity of bliss, it must continue in full force till that eternity arrives; for no type ever ceases till the antitype be come.

Where did that quote come from? From what text?

 

[BobRyan]

Bob, can you post the exact article on the Constantine when he declared that all the officers should take rest on the Day of Holy Sun? It might be around 321 AD, March 7 or so. I cannot remember the exact article and the source. ( any supporting documents are important).

I am not prejudiced to either side of Sabbath or Sunday worship, but I believe the Sabbath itself is still Saturday ( exactly from Friday even to Sat even) and God delights in His Sabbath still.

I agree with you - the Bible Sabbath is from Friday evening to Saturday evening. But not all Christians thought about it this way in earlier centuries. Some considered that it had been "edited to Sunday" by the traditions of man and that this actually changed the day. So in seeking to keep Christ's Sabbath Commandment - they kept sunday.

The only thing I can get at the moment on 321 AD from historic documents is this ...

"The retention of the old pagan name of Dies Solis, for Sunday is, in a great measure, owing to the union of pagan and Christian sentiment with which the first day of the week was recommended by Constantine to his subjects - pagan and Christian alike - as the 'venerable' day of the sun." Arthur P. Stanley, History of the Eastern Church, p. 184

"Thus we learn from Socrates (H.E., vi.c.8) that in his time public worship was held in the churches of Constantinople on both days.... The view that the Christian's Lord's day or Sunday is but the Christian Sabbath deliberately transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week does not indeed find categorical expression till a much later period.... The earliest recognition of the observance of Sunday as a legal duty is a constitution of Constantine in A.D. 321, enacting that all courts of justice, inhabitants of towns, and workshops were to be at rest on Sunday (venerabili die Solis), with an exception in favour of those engaged in agricultural labour...The Council of Laodicea (363) ... forbids Christians from judaizing and resting on the Sabbath day, preferring the Lord's day, and so far as possible resting as Christians."-Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1899 Edition, Vol. XXIII, page 654

My recent discovery was Exodus 23:12 which says we should take rest so that we can be refreshed. Our Spirit and souls are designed to take rest on Sabbath day, not any other human designed day. This might need some further meditation remembering the 8th day Circumcision. The scientific study shows that Vitamin K is produced incredibly, maybe 1000% of normal days, on the 7-8 th day after birth, so that the cut wounds from the circumcision may be healed immediately. Likewise the human body system is not changed but designed to take rest on Sabbath Day.

Thank you for sharing that sir. It is an interesting point.

I am basically a believer that every day of 7 days a week is the Sabbath in Jesus christ and there is no differentiation among the days. However, I realize I have to choose a certain day for the worship service, then can hardly avoid the burden of choice. Anyway I am generous to any party on this matter.

In Exodus God conducted an experiment with the manna for 40 years to emphasize the point with Israel that they had to select His selected day as the preparation day and His selected day as the Sabbath.

In Gen 2:3-4 He makes a lot out of the fact that HE sanctified it and blessed it.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Bob quotes Adam Clark with link and mistakenly calls it Matthew Henry -

Quote:
There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. As it is a type of that rest which remains for the people of God, of an eternity of bliss, it must continue in full force till that eternity arrives; for no type ever ceases till the antitype be come.

The Adam Clarke Commentary - Colossians chapter 2.

See the link

Where did that quote come from? From what text?

Adam Clark not Matt Henry. Clark's link is given in the post but my heading says it is MAtthew Henry - I have corrected the error in my notes. THanks.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob;
Clean out your pm box.

 

[BobRyan]

Ok - done!

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan,

I did look in Matthew Henry Commentary book on Colossians 2:16. He say nothing on sabbath.

You qouted Matthew Henry's comment on Col. 2:16.

But, I looked at Matt Henry commentary on verse 16. He say nothing.

You gave the link of commenatery. That is from Adam Clarke Commentary. Exactly, what Adam said as, you quoted his comment when you post it here.

That is correct - I gave the right link for quote but I labeled it Matthew Henry in my notes instead of Adam Clarke.

Thanks for pointing that out sir.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The reason that Matthew Henry keeps getting added to my notes in Col 2 has to do with Vs 14

Matthew Henry
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=col&chapter=002
Verse 14. Blotting out the hand-writing of ordinances
By the hand-writing of ordinances the apostle most evidently means the ceremonial law: this was against them, for they were bound to fulfil it; and it was contrary to them, as condemning them for their neglect and transgression of it. This law God himself has blotted out.
Blotting out the hand-writing is probably an allusion to Numbers 5:23, where the curses written in the book, in the case of the woman suspected of adultery, are directed to be blotted out with the bitter waters. And there can be little doubt of a farther allusion, viz., to the custom of discharging the writing from parchment by the application of such a fluid as the muriatic acid, which immediately dissolves those ferruginous calces which constitute the blackening principle of most inks. But the East India inks, being formed only of simple black, such as burnt ivory, or cork, and gum water, may be wiped clean off from the surface of the paper or parchment by the application of a wet sponge, so as to leave not one legible vestige remaining: this I have often proved.
Nailing it to his cross
When Christ was nailed to the cross, our obligation to fulfil these ordinances was done away. There may be another reference here to some ancient mode of annulling legal obligations, by nailing them to a post; but I do not recollect at present an instance or example. Antiquated laws are said to have been thus abrogated.

 

[BobRyan]

Here are some other sources I have collected on this topic -- hopefully I got them right.

John Gill on Col 2:14

http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/geb/view.cgi?book=col&chapter=002&verse=014

the whole law of Moses is intended, which was the handwriting of God, and obliged to obedience to it, and to punishment in case of disobedience; and this the Jews F26 call (bwx) (rjv) , "the writing of the debt", and is the very phrase the Syriac version uses here: now this was as a debt book, which showed and testified the debts of men; that is, their sins, how many they are guilty of, and what punishment is due unto them: and may well be said to be that

A.T. Robertson – Col 2:14

http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/rwp/view.cgi?book=col&chapter=002&verse=014

Colossians 2:14
Having blotted out (exaleipsav).
And so "cancelled." First aorist active participle of old verb exaleipw, to rub out, wipe off, erase. In N.T. only in Acts 3:19 (LXX); Revelation 3:5; Colossians 2:14. Here the word explains xarisamenov and is simultaneous with it. Plato used it of blotting out a writing. Often MSS. were rubbed or scraped and written over again (palimpsests, like Codex C).

The bond written in ordinances that was against us (to kat' hmwn xeirograpon toiv dogmasin).
The late compound xeirograpon (xeir, hand, grapw) is very common in the papyri for a certificate of debt or bond, many of the original xeirograpa (handwriting, "chirography"). See Deissmann, Bible Studies, p. 247. The signature made a legal debt or bond as Paul says in Philemon 1:18: "I Paul have written it with mine own hand, I will repay it." Many of the papyri examples have been "crossed out" thus X as we do today and so cancelled.

One decree is described as "neither washed out nor written over" (Milligan, N. T. Documents, p. 16). Undoubtedly "the handwriting in decrees" (dogmasin, the Mosaic law, Ephesians 2:15) was against the Jews (Exodus 24:3; Deuteronomy 27:14-26) for they accepted it, but the Gentiles also gave moral assent to God's law written in their hearts (Romans 2:14). So Paul says "against us" (kat' hmwn) and adds "which was contrary to us" (o hn upenantion hmin) because we (neither Jew nor Gentile) could not keep it. Hupenantiov is an old double compound adjective (upo, en, antiov) set over against, only here in N.T. except Hebrews 10:27 when it is used as a substantive. It is striking that Paul has connected the common word xeirograpon for bond or debt with the Cross of Christ (Deissmann, Light, etc., p. 332).