To SDA, question of Colossians 2:16

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BobRyan,

I have a question for you.

My friend and I have been debate on sabbath through emails.

This morning, I received email form him. He told me of Colossians 2:16. It proved us that, we do not keep sabbath.

But, this verse doesn't suggest us that, we do not keep sabbath. Paul told us, to respect them do observe these things, because of theses are a SHADOW of things(O.T.) which are speak of Jesus Christ.

I would like to hear your comment on Colossians 2:8. Hope hear from you soon. Thanks.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

GE:

Refer, http://www.biblestudents.co.za


You are RIGHT, "this verse doesn't suggest (to) us that, we do not keep sabbath" -- in fact, it suggests to us that we 'FEAST', spiritually "eating and drinking" of Christ in His "TRIUMPH", "of Sabbath's feast". This is the literal rendering and true interpretation ot this Greek text, word for word, and to its contextual meaning and intent and content. 'Let you not be persuaded otherwise!'

Some -- most Christians -- just will not tolerate hearing it! Maybe also BobRyan won't accept it.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

As I thought, BobRyan would not agree. This is his idea:

"Col 2 tells us that the Shadow Sabbaths (those in Lev 23 that are centered in animal sacrifices that point forward as a shadow to the death of Christ) are simply types pointing to Christ."

First I don't see anything that could associate 'Shadow Sabbaths'; this was a most practical case of Sabbaths' observance through the feasting of it by spiritually "eating and drinking" of Jesus Christ through faith in the then Christian Church in the then 'world' of 'powers and authorities'.
The "Sabbath's Feast" of the Christian Church of Paul's day, in fact 'CENTERED', not, 'in animal sacrifices', 'that point(ed) forward'; it centered in the death and resurrection of Christ -verses 12-14, and pointed forward to "the spectre of things-a-coming ... namely the Body of Christ's Own ... being nourished ... growing with the growth of God".

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BR:

"In Exodus 20:8-11 we are given the text of Christ the creator's MEMORIAL Sabbath pointing BACK to Creation. And we find it "first made holy" in Gen 2:3-4 long before animal sacrifices and sin. Pointing BACK to the work of christ in creation - not pointing forward at all.
"

GE:

In Colossians 2:12 to 19 we are given the text of Christ the Saviour's MEMORIAL Sabbath pointing BACK to His death and resurrection. And we find the Christians' "Sabbath's-feasting", 'first made holy' in that "He (Christ) triumped in it", that meant the end of animal sacrifices and sin. Pointing BACK to the work of Christ in dying and rising, but espeially in rising - the Sabbath now pointed forward as well as to His Body maturing and "increasing with the increase of God", its only wealth and satisfaction. The Church may be most despicable in the eyes of the "world" and its "wisdom", "knowledge", and "authority" and "rule"; be "CONDEMNED" and "JUDGED" and "SUBPOENAED" "with regard to (its) eating and drinking of Sabbath's and of month's feast" yet to God be chosen and precious and irreproachable.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BR:

"So when it comes to the "Shadow Sabbaths" of Col 2 - we can all agree. The sacrifices are ended at the cross according to Heb 10 so the shadows that contained them and pointed forward to Christ are also ended."

GE:

Proof by assumption, purely!
"These things" - meaning everything said by Paul, not only the "Sabbaths' feast", are "a spectre of things-a-coming" : Future Presence. The Sabbath at this stage and point in time in the history and growth of the Christian Church spoke of FUTURE development -- which development is expressly explained by Paul right in place: the Church's spiritual growth, 'what (it) ate and drank' of Christ being "assimilated", by "holding to the Head (which is Christ) from which ALL THE BODY ("of Christ's own", verse 17, the Church) by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increases with the increase of God" -- grows with the vitality of God's power through Christ: "the power of His resurrection" (Phil.).

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Besides, even 'Christ's MEMORIAL creation-Sabbath' of Bob's was NO LESS a 'shadow-Sabbath' of what in its day was still "a-coming", namely, of God's rest in and through Christ in resurrection from the dead.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob said

"Col 2 tells us that the Shadow Sabbaths (those in Lev 23 that are centered in animal sacrifices that point forward as a shadow to the death of Christ) are simply types pointing to Christ."

The text says these shadow Sabbaths were "A shadow of Things to come but the substance belongs to Christ".

The animal sacrifices clearly point forward to Christ as Paul explains clearly in Heb 9 and 10. And they end with Christ as he said in Heb 10.

Furthermore the annual feast sabbaths of Lev 23 WERE based and founded in animal sacrifices. But the Seventh-day memorial Sabbath points BACK to creation week -- Gen 2:3 and is not based on animal sacrifices.

"REmember the Sabbath day... for in SIX days the LORD MADE..."

First I don't see anything that could associate 'Shadow Sabbaths';

And so the Bible basis for my rejecting what you say you don't see -- is clear to all.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BR:

"The text says these shadow Sabbaths The text says these shadow Sabbaths were "A shadow of Things to come but the substance belongs to Christ". of Things to come but the substance belongs to Christ". "

GE:

No Bob, I've told you, NOT, as you subtly MOVE the inverted commas to indicate a FALSE quotation -- NOT, "....were "a shadow....", but, "....IS/ARE a shadow...." with no inverted comma in between. That makes of your Past Tense and past shadows, the Present tense and the present "SPECTRE of" the "approaching", "increase", of "Christ's Body" the Church of verse 19.
You just mimic your adversaries - you lack insight because you lack true engagement. Face the challenge with valour, brother.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BR:

"Furthermore the annual feast sabbaths of Lev 23 WERE based and founded in animal sacrifices. But the Seventh-day memorial Sabbath points BACK to creation week -- Gen 2:3 and is not based on animal sacrifices."

GE:

How many times now, here we go again? Do you so contemn me you won't read my posts? for if you have, then you will notice that the Sabbath was but for a short period in history 'based' on 'creation week' before it made way for the Sabbath based on God's work of redemption. The creation isn't mentioned in the Deutoronomy version of the Law, or, for that matter, in 'hundreds' of other references. The prophets refer to the exodus when they speak of the Sabbath. I cannot now think of one place where they 'base' the Sabbath on the creation. I say it again: The Sabbath is eschatological soteriology, or it's shear legalism and the antipole of grace.

Besides, also the 'annual feasts' were never 'based' on animal sacrifices; they were all, 'based' on the 'salvific work of Christ' (to use a handy Americanism). Then these feasts where they in the NT received their fulfilment, received it on the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD your God. The Passover redemption-moment, in fact solidly fell upon the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD your God, and thus was solidly, 'based', upon the redemptive Sabbath-works-of-rest of God. Never come to me with this anti-Gospel, Christ avoiding arguments of the Sabbath to me again, please?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Then man, you only have to READ the text of Colossians 2:12-19 as, 'it is written', and have the guts to believe what you read THERE, in order to understand it fully the way it READS.

 

[BobRyan]

BR:

"Furthermore the annual feast sabbaths of Lev 23 WERE based and founded in animal sacrifices. But the Seventh-day memorial Sabbath points BACK to creation week -- Gen 2:3 and is not based on animal sacrifices."

GE:

How many times now, here we go again? Do you so contemn me you won't read my posts? for if you have, then you will notice that the Sabbath was but for a short period in history 'based' on 'creation week' before it made way for the Sabbath based on God's work of redemption. The creation isn't mentioned in the Deutoronomy version of the Law,

#1. God's word can not be "edited".
#2. Moses did not "revise Gods Word" in Deut 5.
#3. The Creation fact remains and worship based on that fact is SHOWN from first to last Rev 14:6-7 "WORSHIP Him WHO MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of waters"..

The weekly Sabbath was NOT given in the context of animal sacrifices pointing to redemption.

The weekly sabbath was given to the perfect unfallen race of man in Gen 2:3 -- A MEMORIAL of Creation week.

All the other Sabbaths listed in Lev 23 WERE given in the context of animal sacrifices pointing FORWARD to Christ - they are indeed "shadows" that point forward. Types of Christ.

One of the reasons I love the Baptist Board is that on all the threads where I post - it falls to me to "state the obvious".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BR:

"Furthermore the annual feast sabbaths of Lev 23 WERE based and founded in animal sacrifices. But the Seventh-day memorial Sabbath points BACK to creation week -- Gen 2:3 and is not based on animal sacrifices."




#1. God's word can not be "edited".
#2. Moses did not "revise Gods Word" in Deut 5.
#3. The Creation fact remains and worship based on that fact is SHOWN from first to last Rev 14:6-7 "WORSHIP Him WHO MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of waters"..

The weekly Sabbath was NOT given in the context of animal sacrifices pointing to redemption.

The weekly sabbath was given to the perfect unfallen race of man in Gen 2:3 -- A MEMORIAL of Creation week.

All the other Sabbaths listed in Lev 23 WERE given in the context of animal sacrifices pointing FORWARD to Christ - they are indeed "shadows" that point forward. Types of Christ.

One of the reasons I love the Baptist Board is that on all the threads where I post - it falls to me to "state the obvious".

In Christ,

Bob

GE:

'Moses', DID, "revise Gods Word" in Deut 5. Are you blind that you cannot see he removes the creation-base and replaces it with the redemption-basis?

Moses himself let fall and break the two tables of the Covenant -- to indicate its temporality; it was written on stone - fragile stone - not to indicate its indestructability, but its temporariness until the Living Word of God would make it obsolete.

BR:

"The Creation fact remains and worship based on that fact is SHOWN from first to last Rev 14:6-7 "WORSHIP Him WHO MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of waters".."

GE:

Never denied. You, though, talk of the 'creation-motive' as were it exclusive in Rv14, while it is by far not the only nor the dominant. Go read your text again, it tells you of the (supposed) Sabbath in terms of the "Faith of Jesus" virtually exclusively, because (as I have before told you in vain), the text with the word 'kai', identifies 'keep(ing) the commandments', with "the Faith of Jesus", yea, "EVEN the Faith of Jesus".

BR:

"The weekly Sabbath was NOT given in the context of animal sacrifices pointing to redemption."

GE:

Incorrect, simply. The weekly Sabbath was given in the context of at least twice as much animal sacrifices pointing to redemption. Its very own Content speaks of NOTHING, but God's ultimate finishing of His creation and of His Rest in and through Jesus Christ in resurrection from the dead. "God thus in this wise concerning the Seventh Day did speak" and in fact in no other wise!
That is what separated the Sabbath in its unique connection with the non-sacrificial offering of the First Sheaf Wave Offering Before the Lord.
When the two things of sacrifice and Live Offering once for all co-incided in Jesus Christ it brought about a change in Law like but once in all the history of God's Plan of Redemption. How you refuse to see! How you emmaciate yourself for no reason at all! You are to be pitied!

BR:
"The weekly sabbath was given to the perfect unfallen race of man in Gen 2:3 -- A MEMORIAL of Creation week."

GE:

The Sabbath was a gift of Grace: Jesus says so: "For the sake of man", and that was, for his sake in the matter of salvation of his soul and restoration to the condition of perfection and redemption -- in that God Himself, "on the Seventh Day revived".

It falls to me you are as blind as a dead man to the obvious.