Top 10 MLB Managers of All Time

That is an interesting list.

The question is do we define the best managers of all time by their number of wins, or by something else such as playoff appearances, WS rings ect.

There are a couple on that list that I thought would have had more wins than they do.

 

This may be more subjective than the "Top 10 Pro Quarterbacks" thread.
First off, I am inclined to rate John McGraw ahead of Connie Mack because Connie Mack had such an unequaled tenure (50 years!) because he was also general manager and part owner of the Philadephia Athletics all those years; and also, for that reason, he went about his business in such a way as to make money by being 'good' but not necessarily having the goal of winning championships... i.e., he would be having a good year, with players producing well and good fan attendance, then he would make moves to actually drop off in August and into September, because if his team won a pennant, his players could demand greater salary increases the next year; if they played well but still didn't win it, he kept the personnel costs down. That may be logically clever-- and he couldn't get fired for it since he would have to fire himself-- but sports is about winning, and to be a great manager should mean to be successful in winning with what he's got, and leave the business problems to the guys in suits and ties... and I suppose that's why he managed in a suit and tie.

I don't really know the status of John McGraw in regard to whether he was also general manager, but he did also have a long tenure with the NY Giants (31 years). But he won more championships in 31 years than Mack did in 50, and he did it with different types of teams-- starting with the scrappy, 'dirty' teams like the ones he played for, into the Babe Ruth era longball teams. And though he was pugnacious and stubborn and profane, apparently he could still relate to players who were not in his own mold, especially Christy Mathewson, the "Christian Gentleman." And although he did not get it done, of course, there is evidence that he wanted to integrate major league baseball 4 decades before Jackie Robinson, but it simply could not have worked at that time; it would only result in rioting and killing.

Among the others listed... Bobby Cox might be the best in the best in the last 2 decades if he had won more than one World Series. Does that mean Joe Torre is the best in that period? I don't know, since he worked under a man who essentially bought those championships for him-- that is, he did what Billy Martin did 20 years before, except he was not continually fired and rehired.

I think it may be between McGraw and Alston. Alston took a pennant-winning team in Brooklyn and finally won a World Series for the Dodgers there, then went to LA and won 3 more. He certainly had pitching talent, but he also handled pitchers very well. Then after a complete overhaul of personnel in the late 60's he was a winner again, leaving the Dodgers talent-rich to continue winning under Lasorda. But it's probably fortunate for his record that he didn't have to manage in the free-agency era. His successfully contemporaries-- Weaver, Dick Willliams, Houk, et al-- proved less successful in the transition.

 

Ok, here are mine. AVG* WS* ALC/NLC*

1) Joe McCarthy 2125-------------615 7ws 1alc 1nlc
2) Casey Stengel 1905-----------508 7ws 3alc
3) John McGraw 2763-------------586 3ws 7nlc
4) Walter Alston 2040-------------558 4ws 3nlc
5) Joe Torre 2067------------------539 4ws 2alc
6) Sparky Anderson 2194--------545 3ws 2nlc
7) Connie Mack 3731--------------486 5ws 4alc
8) Bobby Cox 2255----------------561 1ws 4nlc
9) Tony LaRussa 2375------------534 2ws 2alc 1nlc
10) Earl Weaver 1480--------------583 1ws 3alc

11) Fred Clarke 1602---------------576 1ws 3nlc
12) Miller Huggins 1413------------555 3ws 3alc
13) Tommy Lasorda 1599----------526 3ws 2nlc
14) Leo Durocher 2008------------540 1ws 2nlc
15) Bill McKechnie 1896------------524 2ws 2nlc
16) Dick Williams 1571--------------520 2ws 1alc 1nlc
17) Ralph Houk 1619---------------514 2ws 1alc
18) Lou Piniella 1604---------------517 1ws
19) Bucky Harris 2157--------------493 2ws
20) Al Lopez 1410-------------------584
21) Chuck Tanner 1352------------495 1ws
22) Clark Griffith 1491--------------522
23) Wilbert Robinson 1399--------500
24) Gene Mauch 1902--------------483
25) Jimmie Dykes 1406-------------477


*AVG= winning average
*American League Championship/National League Championship

 

This list looks pretty good to me. I would probably drop Cox out the top 10 and put in either Durocher or Lasorda. My top 2 would be Mack and McGraw because they were such innovators (of course, they had the advantage of being there almost from the beginning).

After Jim Leyland wins a couple more World Series rings in '08 and '09, he'll probably crack the top 10.

 

This is such an interesting discussion becaus of the number of great managers in the game now. Several of them have the potential of winning a ws this year (not to mention the next following years), at least an league championship, which would undo the list we assemble...

 

I tried to look at winning percentage, WS=World Series wins, and NL/AL Championships. The beauty of baseball is its statistical data. Winning %'s can tell you a lot about a managers ability as a strategist however as in Connie Mack's case he racked up a lot of wins but did not maintain a winning record .486. The 5 WS wins shows that he was a good postseason MGR. Plus he gave his teams the chance to be in the post season with 4 ALC's. This is why I ranked Joe McCarthy 2125 wins a .615 lifetime average with 7 ws 1alc 1nlc as best over all.
Huggins, Lasorda and Clarke should probably round out 8,9 &10. Then adjusting the rest accordingly. However as you look at Cox's numbers they fit him in the top 5 with a .561 winning %. This number could rise or fall as his tenure is not yet done. Right now I'd at least consent to him as #8 all time.

I looked at Leyland's numbers too and he stands to rise into this list as his career continues.

 

No way Bobby Cox belongs in the Top Ten. 1 ring with all that talent?

1. McCarthy
2. Mcgraw
3. Anderson
4. Stengel
5. Mack
6. Alston
7. Huggins
8. Torre
9. LaRussa
10 Lasorda

Weaver is pretty close and so is Billy Martin. Regarding him, consider the following: only once in 9 full managerial season did his team not win the division or come in second. 5 divisional titles, 2 flags, one ring. 2267 wins and a .553 winning percentage is good enough for me. Cox would be no higher than 15th. I think we're seeing just how valuable Mazzone was to his staff.

(Did you think I was going to say Pete Mackanin or Pete Rose should be on this list) :laugh: By the way, Lou won with the team Pete built. There, I said it this month. Don't have to say it again until April :laugh: :thumbs:

 

Yep, and I was about to make the same point. Only that my point was going to hint that Cox needs Mazzone to come back home.
Good post Tom though your list is week.