steaver said:
You say "so" as if it is not true. What don't you believe about the passage?
Rom 2:14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Is this what the verse says? No. It does not say "even if you are committing murder you are alright".
(btw, this is the proper way to confront a theology you suspect as in error, by asking as you did a question rather than falsely declaring "
you are teaching this or that :thumbs: , Thank you!)
God states here that there is a conscience within a man. The conscience would be something God has placed there when He created man to guide him into the righteousness of His law, even though not yet revealed to him oraly or on paper so to speak. Those who are persistent in rejecting their conscience and do evil continuiously may have it seared to a point where God turns them over, like turns their conscience off so to speak, to their own eternal damnation.
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their
conscience seared with a hot iron;
Jhn 8:9 And they which heard [it],
being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
If you have a member of your congregation say that they have murdered and it has not convicted them it is wrong, then that does not make God's word void. It shows the member is lying, suppressing his conscience, or is beyond the point of having their conscience seared. It does not make God's word concerning the conscience false.
If you want a debate without so much contention, lay off the remarks. You continue with the remarks the first post in this thread. Take a look in the mirror, then apologize for starting a thread with a sly remark.
(Steaver: btw, this is the proper way to confront a theology you suspect as in error, by asking as you did a question rather than falsely declaring "you are teaching this or that :thumbs: , Thank you!)
Now, how many salvation systems are there in the NT? Do you have one for the Jews and one for the Gentiles? Don't you accept the fact it is no longer Jew or Gentile, but Children of God?
Now, how does your conscious theology fit with the following scripture, how do you excuse the word of God.
Rom 8:1¶[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
If there is no condemnation, then the conscious may be there but the children of God are not doing anything to be condemned.
Now if you are going to teach the Law, I suggest you study it first. For many attempt to teach the Law and don't understand it themselves.
1 Tim 1:
4: Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
5: Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7: Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8: But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9: Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10: For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
What is it saying? It is saying that we are free from the Law through the blood and body of Christ.
Why? Because God said to the believer, I will put my laws in their hearts and write them in their minds.
What does that mean? It means that the righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in us.
Why? Because we don't do the things contained in the Law. The righteous could not be fulfilled in us, if we are breakers of the Law.
Romans 8:
1: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2: For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3: For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5: For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6: For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8: So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Is this saying the Law is done away with, NO! It is saying where the Law is.
Rom 3:30 Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
If you want to debate me, don't start off by talking "down" to me. I am a person who highly resents someone putting themselves above me, or anyone else. This is a level playing field. I do not put myself above anyone, but will fiercly defend my position, when attacked. Someone said to turn the other cheek, well when it comes to the word of God, there is no "backing" up. If you are ashame to confess me, I will be ashame to confess you.
So Sir, this is a good place to start with a clean slate, or we can continue as we have been. The ball is in your corner, I am giving you a chance to withdraw your remarks and debate cleanly.
I will be logging off, until I see how you respond.
I will say this for you. You have posted the best response to me about sin, than anyone because you use the scripture that sin is transgression of the Law, which would put ALL sin, under the Law. The only thing is, Paul in my opinion was speaking of sin that brings separation from God and John said "all unrighteous is sin" which I take the breaking of the Law, John goes on and says AND there is a sin not unto death. He is plainly speaking of 2 different kind of sins. Scripture also plainly says, there is a sin unto death, and there is a sin not unto death, which plainly is speaking of two different kind of sins. Also, Jesus said, "he that hath delivered me unto you hath the greater sin", which plainly says, there is a difference in sin.
I have given you examples of scripture that speaks of at least two different kinds of sin. Maybe you could you give me scripture where a "bad thought" is equal to the same sin as "rape"?
One other thing, When God said I will put my laws in their hearts and minds, He was talking about all the saved, not just the Jews, for we were "grafted" into the same system of salvation as they.
BBob,
