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Translation Encryption
- Thread starter Van
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According to at least on Calvinist, there is no problem not understanding what scripture says about Hades and Gehenna.
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
Some claim not understanding what scripture says about Hades and Gehenna is not a problem.
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
No I do not believe in your beliefs
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
You now claim not to know what you believe?
Rev 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds.
The temporary holding cells of Revelations 20:13 - Sea, Death, Hades. These are not the final destination of the lost.
One common phrase, found in about 13 verses is "through or by faith." "Through translates the Greek preposition "dia" and when used to show instrumentality, can be translated as "by means of" or "by way of" when "faith" is in the "genitive" case.
Romans 4 teaches God credits our faith as righteousness for our benefit. Thus the phrase indicates God uses the "faith" path in bestowing His blessing upon a person or people. Thus a less encrypted version of the phrase is "by way of your credited faith."
To claim God bestows His blessings using the way of uncredited faith is a denial of the obvious. To claim God bestows His blessings "not through or not by way of credited faith" reflects a liberal rewrite of scripture.
Romans 4 teaches God credits our faith as righteousness for our benefit. Thus the phrase indicates God uses the "faith" path in bestowing His blessing upon a person or people. Thus a less encrypted version of the phrase is "by way of your credited faith."
To claim God bestows His blessings using the way of uncredited faith is a denial of the obvious. To claim God bestows His blessings "not through or not by way of credited faith" reflects a liberal rewrite of scripture.
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
Are you daft Van? I asked Y-O-U how many final destinations there are for humanity. You could be put in the orthodox category (in this respect --not all theological areas) if you answer two and two only. But if you reply that there are a handful of final destinations you would be expressing heterodox beliefs. Don't try to be a greased pig. Remember, honesty is the best policy.
Van, I ask in an earlier post:
so again, Van,
Is there a reason you do not cite your quotes?
I really would like to read the context of the quotes, but without citation….?
so again, Van,
Is there a reason you do not cite your quotes?
I really would like to read the context of the quotes, but without citation….?
Calvinists consistently misrepresent my views without quotation, why not question them???
Because your goal is to change the subject from the poor translations that encrypt God's intended message...
One common phrase, found in about 13 verses is "through or by faith." "Through translates the Greek preposition "dia" and when used to show instrumentality, can be translated as "by means of" or "by way of" when "faith" is in the "genitive" case.
Romans 4 teaches God credits our faith as righteousness for our benefit. Thus the phrase indicates God uses the "faith" path in bestowing His blessing upon a person or people. Thus a less encrypted version of the phrase is "by way of your credited faith."
To claim God bestows His blessings using the way of uncredited faith is a denial of the obvious. To claim God bestows His blessings "not through or not by way of credited faith" reflects a liberal rewrite of scripture.
Romans 4 teaches God credits our faith as righteousness for our benefit. Thus the phrase indicates God uses the "faith" path in bestowing His blessing upon a person or people. Thus a less encrypted version of the phrase is "by way of your credited faith."
To claim God bestows His blessings using the way of uncredited faith is a denial of the obvious. To claim God bestows His blessings "not through or not by way of credited faith" reflects a liberal rewrite of scripture.
Now let's look at Colossians 1:23:
IF indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Here the translations start off with a conditional "if indeed" (eige/G1489)
However the Greek word has within its range of meaning "since." Thus the verse could be translated as "Since you are persisting in the faith..." This view asks the question, "Since what" and the answer is "being reconciled to God."
Thus the proof of being reconciled is persisting in the faith and not shifting from the hope of the gospel! Our eternal security is provided by God protecting our credited faith, so we are unable to not persist if we are born anew.
IF indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Here the translations start off with a conditional "if indeed" (eige/G1489)
However the Greek word has within its range of meaning "since." Thus the verse could be translated as "Since you are persisting in the faith..." This view asks the question, "Since what" and the answer is "being reconciled to God."
Thus the proof of being reconciled is persisting in the faith and not shifting from the hope of the gospel! Our eternal security is provided by God protecting our credited faith, so we are unable to not persist if we are born anew.
At any point in time, the active body of Christ is using the common translations (English in our case) of the day. We are familiar with the renderings, and if a translation differs we do not "like" it. For example, if you memorized verses in the KJV, you might not want to go with a version that differs.
Another problem is that a dismissive mantra might arise against a particular version, such as the HCSB is "quirky."
But if you take courses, formal or informal, that teach Bible Study methods, you will find yourself asking why this translation choice rather than that choice? Sometimes the answer is the versions are based on differing texts, CT, MT or TR. But even when looking at the verse same underlying text, translations present very different ideas.
For example, let us look at Romans 10:17, certainly an important text.
ESV
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
CEV
No one can have faith without hearing the message about Christ.
NKJV
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
If we consider these renderings, is faith traveling to us (comes) or is the idea faith is based on or arises from something.
Or does "the word of Christ" refer to the words spoken by Christ rather than declarations made by others about Christ?
And how do we decide what to believe concerning this verse. Some posting on this Board say go with the ones you like or the ones using the most used rendering. Of course that is advocating fallacy.
Our faith is based on something we have heard or learned, such that our faith is "in" that person or thing. So faith arises from embracing someone or something. And the embracing of someone (i.e. faith in Christ) arises from not only hearing the gospel of Christ, but also "receiving" or "accepting" or "believing" the gospel message.
Another problem is that a dismissive mantra might arise against a particular version, such as the HCSB is "quirky."
But if you take courses, formal or informal, that teach Bible Study methods, you will find yourself asking why this translation choice rather than that choice? Sometimes the answer is the versions are based on differing texts, CT, MT or TR. But even when looking at the verse same underlying text, translations present very different ideas.
For example, let us look at Romans 10:17, certainly an important text.
ESV
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
CEV
No one can have faith without hearing the message about Christ.
NKJV
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
If we consider these renderings, is faith traveling to us (comes) or is the idea faith is based on or arises from something.
Or does "the word of Christ" refer to the words spoken by Christ rather than declarations made by others about Christ?
And how do we decide what to believe concerning this verse. Some posting on this Board say go with the ones you like or the ones using the most used rendering. Of course that is advocating fallacy.
Our faith is based on something we have heard or learned, such that our faith is "in" that person or thing. So faith arises from embracing someone or something. And the embracing of someone (i.e. faith in Christ) arises from not only hearing the gospel of Christ, but also "receiving" or "accepting" or "believing" the gospel message.
No, I stated my goal.
A great many of the posts from the calvinist thinkers use citations.
I want to read contextually from where you got your quotes. That in no means is detracting, misrepresenting, or questioning your presentation. I have no desire to change the subject, why would I?
So, would you kindly cite from where you are quoting?
Would you kindly present on topic discussion, rather than my behavior? Every one knows what you are, and why you ask off topic questions.
At any point in time, the active body of Christ is using the common translations (English in our case) of the day. We are familiar with the renderings, and if a translation differs we do not "like" it. For example, if you memorized verses in the KJV, you might not want to go with a version that differs.
Another problem is that a dismissive mantra might arise against a particular version, such as the HCSB is "quirky."
But if you take courses, formal or informal, that teach Bible Study methods, you will find yourself asking why this translation choice rather than that choice? Sometimes the answer is the versions are based on differing texts, CT, MT or TR. But even when looking at a verse using the same underlying text, translations may present very different ideas.
For example, let us look at Romans 10:17, certainly an important text.
ESV
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
CEV
No one can have faith without hearing the message about Christ.
NKJV
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
If we consider these renderings, is faith traveling to us (comes) or is the idea faith is based on or arises from something.
Or does "the word of Christ" refer to the words spoken by Christ rather than declarations made by others about Christ?
And how do we decide what to believe concerning this verse. Some posting on this Board say go with the ones you like or the ones using the most used rendering. Of course that is advocating fallacy.
Our faith is based on something we have heard or learned, such that our faith is "in" that person or thing. So faith arises from embracing someone or something. And the embracing of someone (i.e. faith in Christ) arises from not only hearing the gospel of Christ, but also "receiving" or "accepting" or "believing" the gospel message
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RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
Van will not reveal his sources. He keeps them close to his vest. He has the tendency to lift every now and then, that is plagiarize.
Van,
For decades I was an educator.
I am used to reading and listening to folks who use quotes and who make claims to either cite the quote or make it known in some manner this is their own thinking.
For example: As a refresher, I am listening on line to Dr. Stanley Toussaint's teaching on Revelation to DTS students. That is what I am used to, so it is not unusual for me to be aware when one doesn't.
Typically, I don't make an issue of it, for ultimately the information presentation is either commonly known or the source is already familiar work.
I had and have no other agenda but to validate your work and words by reading the source material.
I do not wish to engage you in dispute over your source(s), but because you even take that as displaying some hidden agenda, I will not press you further at this point.
My faith is not based on a text, nor arising from embracing someone or something.
My faith was delivered to me by the Holy Spirit opening my ears to the Scriptures and instilling faith and desire to attain that which He delivers. My faith is based upon the Word, not upon words. Faith is the assurance of that hoped for, the conviction of that unseen. I can read and see words. That is not foundational to my faith, for my sight is going to fade and my mind may even loose the capacity to decipher symbols. The Word is, and is in me.
God's written word may be examined more thoroughly and more precisely as a person matures in the knowledge and wisdom of God.
However, it matters very little to an infant what color the milk as long as it quenches the desire for sustenance.
Discernment is gained as one grows from Pablum to Potato and from broth to beef.
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