Translation or Commentary?

[Pastor_Bob]

The following quote comes from Methodist theologian Adam Clarke on the book of Isaiah. He gives quite an endorsement to the writings of a certain "Bishop Lowth," of whom I am unfamiliar. My question is, does Clarke reference a "translation" of the book of Isaiah or merely a "commentary" of the book of Isaiah? If a translation, then his opinion becomes subjective. If a commentary, then he does greatly err to elevate man's thoughts and words to that of divine Scripture.

Bishop Lowth's translation is by far the best that has ever been made of this sublime prophet: as he thoroughly understood his language, so he entered deeply into his spirit. Were it allowable, I should be glad to supersede what is called the authorized version, and put that of the learned bishop, with a few genuine alterations, in its place, as being abundantly more correct and nervous, rendering the sacred text more clearly, and consequently more intelligibly, so that the common reader can understand this text better without a comment, than he can the authorized version even with one. His notes, which are a treasure of learning and sound criticism, I have almost universally preserved, intermingling them with my own; but large quotations from his notes I have distinguished by the letter L.; and I have often adopted his text, as being vastly superior to that in common use; the catch words from which follow those from the authorized version. Should a new translation of the Bible be ever published by authority, I have no doubt but, with a few alterations, that of Bishop Lowth would be adopted as the standard. [emphasis mine]

 

[BobinKy]

I think that Adam Clarke made reference to a "translation" of the book of Isaiah. However, as the following links illustrate, Lowth also wrote about Hebrew poetry and early publications of his translations contained extensive notes and have been referred to as commentary as well as translation. In the Church of England, he probably was pretty big stuff in his day and age.

First, here are a couple of "preview" online editions of his translation of Isaiah.

1825 edition

2008 edition



And a few other links about Bishop Lowth.

Wikipedia -- Bishop Robert Lowth (b. 1710, d. 1787)

Obituary for Bishop Robert Lowth http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Gentleman's_Magazine/Some_Account_and_Character_of_the_late_Robert_Lowth,_D.D._Lord_Bishop_of_London

Gary Stanstell's article -- The Poet's Prophet: Bishop Robert Lowth's Eighteenth-Century Commentary on Isaiah http://books.google.com/books?id=oZOPd1rsMCYC&pg=PA223&lpg=PA223&dq=Bishop+Robert+Lowth+translation+of+Isaiah&source=bl&ots=pcl-USErle&sig=84qeYTxXLRfcE_Z6JsoDnQvuoxQ&hl=en&ei=t_PBTOCMDoH98Aa4qbT7Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Bishop%20Robert%20Lowth%20translation%20of%20Isaiah&f=false

Online Encyclopedia article on Robert Lowth http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/LOB_LUP/LOWTH_ROBERT_1710_1787_.html

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Very good information. Thank you Bob.

 

[stilllearning]

Hi Pastor_Bob

You said.......

“If a commentary, then he does greatly err to elevate man's thoughts and words to that of divine Scripture.”

The idea of elevating man’s thoughts and words, to that of divine Scripture, is nothing new, for this day and age.
(Hardly being called “error” by most Christians.)

And unfortunately, the idea of “Scripture” being considered divine, is considered a little old fashioned by most also.
--------------------------------------------------
Praise the Lord, I still have faith in God’s preserved Word, but the idea of believing a mere “translation” to be perfect, is too much for most people to swallow.

 

[BobinKy]

Very good information. Thank you Bob.

I should thank you for the post. I knew about the Methodist commentator Adam Clarke (b. 1760/1762, d. 1832), however, replying to your post gave me the opportunity to learn about Robert Lowth.

. . .

I notice from your profile you are a reading fan of western novelist Louis L'Amour . Several years ago I read through many Zane Grey westerns. Some of his novels are available online . Growing up, I watched the Zane Grey Theatre . As you may know Zane Grey grew up in Zanesville, Ohio--a town where I once lived close to. Then one day, I gave all of my Zane Grey books to a business associate, except one--The Zane Grey Cookbook http://www.amazon.com/Zane-Grey-cookbook-Barbara-Reiger/dp/0139837590, which I kept for several years as I tried out the various wild game recipes--when I was able to come by wild game.

My apologies to the readers for my Zane Grey excursion.

...Bob

 

[franklinmonroe]

... My question is, does Clarke reference a "translation" of the book of Isaiah or merely a "commentary" of the book of Isaiah? If a translation, then his opinion becomes subjective. If a commentary, then he does greatly err to elevate man's thoughts and words to that of divine Scripture.

I would say that translation and commentary are merely relative terms folks can apply at various points on a what is actually a continuous scale. In other words, it is possible that a genuine translation could appear commentary-like in one person's estimation, and vice versa (I have Peterson's The Message somewhat in mind here). Virtually every choice made by translators is their opinion; there seems to be very little objective about it. So why should there be such a huge disparity in the treatment of a man's opinion when it's called "translation" rather than when it's called "commentary".

Have you ever seen the English translation of Erasmus' Paraphrases of the New Testament? We would probably call it a commentary today. The Living Bible (a true paraphrase since it has an English original source) has virtually no commentary in the text, but certainly contains a man's opinions. Of course, the more formal (literal) a translator attempts to be there is less room for extreme subjectivity, but there is still much room for subtle subjectivity.

 

[Deacon]

It’s been a couple centuries since Robert Lowth wrote his book.
I looked through a few commentaries on Isaiah and found that most reference his works...

... even in the preface to the 1873 edition of the KJV .

The poetical portions of the Old Testament and Apocrypha, as well as a very few passages of the New Testament, have been arranged according to the principles first enunciated by Bishop Lowth, and modified and improved upon by his successors. The series of couplets or triplets of parallel lines is furthermore broken everywhere by divisions (similar to those in the prose books) suggested by the sense, which throughout Job (as represented by Delitzsch) and in some of the Psalms (e.g. xlii., xliii., lxxxix.; cvii.) may be regarded as stanzas, often though by no means always of uniform length.
The Cambridge Paragraph Bible: Of the Authorized English Version (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2006), lx.

I encourage you to read the first 20 pages of his book posted by BobinKy,
...by then you’ll be hooked!

Here’s one verse of interest:


And he cried, A lion:
My lord, I stand continually upon the watchtower in the daytime,
And I am set in my ward whole nights:
Isaiah 21:8 (AV 1873)


And he that looked out on the watch cried aloud;
Oh my Lord, keep my station all the day long
And on my ward I have continued every night.
Isaiah 21:8 Robert Lowth (1778)

Some modern versions follow his emendation as well.

Then he who saw cried out:
“Upon a watchtower I stand, O Lord, continually by day,
and at my post I am stationed whole nights.
(ESV)

Then the lookout called,
“O Lord, I stand continually by day on the watchtower,
And I am stationed every night at my guard post.
(NAS)

His emendation was confirmed in the writings of the Dead Sea Scrolls [1QIsa].

Rob

 

[stilllearning]

Hello Deacon

Thank you for your post.

You noted Isaiah 21:8.......
“And he cried, A lion: My lord, I stand continually upon the watchtower in the daytime, and I am set in my ward whole nights:”

......and you intimated that Robert Lowth somehow improved upon this verse with.......
“And he that looked out on the watch cried aloud; Oh my Lord, keep my station all the day long And on my ward I have continued every night”

Then backed this up, by pointing out how some MV’s followed his lead.....
Then he who saw cried out: “Upon a watchtower I stand, O Lord, continually by day, and at my post I am stationed whole nights. (ESV)

Then the lookout called, “O Lord, I stand continually by day on the watchtower, And I am stationed every night at my guard post. (NAS)

You, yourself pointed out how he “removed” the words “A lion”.

How is this an improvement?
--------------------------------------------------
If indeed, it is “an improvement”, to remove “lion”(yra ‘ariy ar-ee’) from this verse, than why not remove the same Hebrew word from Genesis 49:9.....
“Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?”

And if “lion” is removed from Genesis 49:9, than it could not be referenced in.....
Revelation 5:5
“And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.”
--------------------------------------------------
Now we don’t know what motivated him to make these changes, but it sure looks like he is trying to change our perception of Jesus Christ.(the Lion of the tribe of Judah).

My point is; It was wrong for Robert Lowth to mess with God’s word, just as it is wrong to mess with it today.
Because we don’t know the true motivation, behind the changes.

 

[Jerome]

Spurgeon's Commenting and Commentaries calls Bishop Lowth's Isaiah a "grand work" but notes that:

Smith's Dictionary remarks that Bp. Lowth's incessant correction of the Hebrew text is constantly to be mistrusted. This seriously diminishes Lowth's value

 

[Deacon]

Of course Spurgeon commented before they found the ancient texts in Qumran.

It's facinating to compare Lowth's suspicions with these texts.

No, he's not always right but there are times when he's dead-on.

**********

Thank you Stillearning; nice to see you still reading.

Perhaps the KJV is lion to you about what the text really is. :tongue3:

Rob

 

[BobinKy]

Perhaps the KJV is lion to you about what the text really is. :tongue3:

Rob

:laugh: Funny post.

Methinks we may swerve toward a KJVO discussion?

But before we swerve, I encourage all readers to click one of the online editions I included in my first post, and read a short passage in Lowth's translation -- "The Oracle Concerning the Desert of the Sea" (Isa. 21:1-10). And be sure to turn further in the online edition (after the translation) and read Lowth's commentary (notes) on this passage.

...Bob

 

[Jerome]

From reference book entries for Bishop Lowth:

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage:

He judged correctness by his own rules—mostly derived from Latin grammar—which frequently went against established usage. His favorite mode of illustration is what was known as "false syntax": examples of linguistic wrongdoing from the King James Bible

International Cyclopedia:

Isaiah, a New Translation, with a Preliminary Dissertation, and Notes, Critical Philological, and Explanatory (1778; German edition, by Koppe, Gott. 1779; third edition in English, 1842); a work rather too elegant and ornate as a version, but of great value as a means of correcting the numerous blunders of the "authorized version,"

 

[Logos1560]

Robert Lowth's translation of the book of Isaiah was published together with Benjamin Blayney's translation of the book of Jeremiah along with the translation of other books by others. Benjamin Blayney was the editor of the 1769 Oxford edition of the KJV. This combined translation was entitled A Literal Translation of the Prophets.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

I notice from your profile you are a reading fan of western novelist Louis L'Amour . Several years ago I read through many Zane Grey westerns. Some of his novels are available online . Growing up, I watched the Zane Grey Theatre . As you may know Zane Grey grew up in Zanesville, Ohio--a town where I once lived close to. Then one day, I gave all of my Zane Grey books to a business associate, except one--The Zane Grey Cookbook http://www.amazon.com/dp/0139837590/?tag=baptis04-20, which I kept for several years as I tried out the various wild game recipes--when I was able to come by wild game.

My apologies to the readers for my Zane Grey excursion.

...Bob

I am an avid reader of Louis L'Amour books. As far as I know, I own every book he has written with the exception of a book of poetry entitled Smoke From This Altar. I also have several Zane Gray novels as well as Clarence Mulford's stories of Hopalong Cassidy and the Bar 20. My personal preference is L'Amour, but I enjoy reading the other authors for a change of pace now and then. I also enjoy collecting his books that were made into films.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Sounds like Lowth had a place at the table of a translator of the text. But I am not comfortable with a one man show. The AV had a team of 70 translators, all very educated men, who discussed the translation.

There is no divine promise for an infallible translation. But we may expect to be helped of God in the work. Any translation of the Scriptures ought to be done by a team of educated and godly men, not just one man.

 

[Rippon]

But I am not comfortable with a one man show. The AV had a team of 70 translators, all very educated men, who discussed the translation. Any translation of the Scriptures ought to be done by a team of educated and godly men, not just one man.

That team of 70 leaned very hard on the work of a one-man translator -- William Tyndale.