Treatment of Taliban and al Qaeda prisoners

enemy combatants with no rights whatsoever.

Joseph Botwinick

 

ditto

 

Hello FTR:

What was that quote attributed to Fyodor Dostoevsky?

Regards - hope all is well in your world,
BiR (safely back home in the Commonwealth)

 

They are afforded medical care, right to religious pursuit, food, clean water, and a decent place to sleep. Other than that, no rights under the US constitution.

 

I think they should be treated the same way we would want our our prisoners and hostages to be treated. Otherwise we give up the moral grounds to object when one of our soldiers is captured and treated poorly. They should be given food and healthcare and kept alive. I do not believe we should torture them although my definition of torture would be pretty specific and would not include what I would call good hard interrogation.

The Moral Law is one of the principles of war going back to Sun Tzu and was one of his seven considerations for forcasting victory or defeat. We cannot afford to give this up.

 

These people do not abide by any moral law. They should be treated as enemy combatants. We treat them better than that, though. They are allowed to practice their religion, we furnish Qurans and prayer rugs for them and have special cooks flown in to prepare their meals according to their religious laws. They get free medical and dental care, something they wouldn't even have if they we hadn't captured them. They have it made in the shade and reportedly have more amenities than the troops assigned to guard them who have prisoner bodily fluids thrown at them. We are TOO kind.

 

That really depends on the circumstances of each one's capture. Generally speaking, anyone captured on the battlefield who was participating should be treated as a prisoner of war.

If the person is a US citizen, he must be treated according to US laws.

People who are arrested on rumor or for being in the wrong place, should be questioned lawfully and either charged or released.

If a person is arrested for looting (or some such), he should be treated as a suspected criminal until and unless he is convicted - at which time he should be properly as a criminal. If there is not evidence enough to convict him, he must be released.

Each should be treated humanely.

 

Prisoners all over the Middle East are probably clamoring to get into Gitmo.

 

That's not true on several counts.

I believe that "peoples fighting against alien occupation" are specifically covered. People belonging to an organized militia with a chain of command who carry arms openly are considered protected combatants. Until a tribunal has determined their status, they are to be considered as protected prisoners of war or civilians.

One problem with the premise of this thread is that guilt is assumed, but no mention of how guilt was determined was made. Until there is a trial of some sort with evidence presented and a chance for the prisoner to defend himself, how do you know who is al Qaeda and who is a bystander? Your unwritten presumption is that the person was captured in battle. I believe that is very often not the case.

But WE are. We have agreed to follow international protocols of war.

Forces which target civilians should be tried for war crimes - which should include actual charges, evidence and access to defense or be subject to existing penal law of the country where the crime was committed. If the forces shooting at our troops are organized and carrying arms openly, they are considered combatants who are accorded special protections, otherwise civilians and subject to local law. Although all combatants are required to comply with international laws, violations do not deprive the combatants of their status, or of their right to prisoner of war protections if they are captured. Mercenaries are excepted from protections.

Protocol 1, Art. 45, Sect. 3: 3. Any person who has taken part in hostilities, who is not entitled to prisoner-of-war status and who does not benefit from more favourable treatment in accordance with the Fourth Convention shall have the right at all times to the protection of Article 75 of this Protocol. In occupied territory, any such person, unless he is held as a spy, shall also be entitled, notwithstanding Article 5 of the Fourth Convention, to his rights of communication under that Convention.

Art. 75 contains Fundamental Guarantees including "2. The following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever, whether committed by civilian or by military agents: (a) violence to the life, health, or physical or mental well-being of persons, in particular: (i) murder; (ii) torture of all kinds, whether physical or mental; (iii) corporal punishment; and (iv) mutilation;

(b) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment, enforced prostitution and any form or indecent assault; (c) the taking of hostages; (d) collective punishments; and (e) threats to commit any of the foregoing acts.

3. Any person arrested, detained or interned for actions related to the armed conflict shall be informed promptly, in a language he understands, of the reasons why these measures have been taken. Except in cases of arrest or detention for penal offences, such persons shall be released with the minimum delay possible and in any event as soon as the circumstances justifying the arrest, detention or internment have ceased to exist."


About non-war crimes:

Under the laws of either the country they are in or under the laws of the Protecting Power (not the US as we are party to the conflict). No, I am NOT saying they are protected under the U.S. Constitution, unless they are U.S. citizens. Based on the Geneva Conventions, Convention III (covering occupied territories).

 

What is the definition of "failed state" in this context?

 

It's important to remember these terrorists were captured, not rounded up like the Gestapo did the Jews. I'm against torture, but I'm fully for detention, prosecution and punishment of anyone who attacks our nation and our freedoms.

 

No, that is not the quote!!

Thanks for that: as I am typing this, I am headed to Philadelphia, but my flight is delayed. I will try to send a postcard!!!
This may shape up to be a bad travel day.......

That's the one!! Think about that: the society can be judged by entering its prisons. There is a lot of truth to that statement, and consider the perspective of the person who made the it.......

Regards to both of you,
BiR (Hopefully I will soon be headed to Philadelphia)