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Trinity
- Thread starter 37818
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Now, If you can explain that to where the mortal mind can understand, you'll be the scholar to the scholars.
It's much more that just being of the same essence. I don't think the mortal mind is capable of understanding this.
I think the reason there's no effort in Scripture to explain it.
37818
Well-Known Member
Accepting the simple Biblical truth.
Romans 8:9, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Romans 8:16, The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: . . .
2 John 1:9, . . . He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
What specific difficulty do you have in mind?
The Trinity is the name of the solution. It is not the problem. It is the solution.
I agree totally with the OP, I'm saying how 3 distinct persons can be one God cannot be explained.
It's like a potato...no...wait....it's like an onion....or an apple...
Did that help?
There are a lot of things in the Bible that we are to accept without understanding.
When God gave Israel the Law He never explained to them why they could not eat bacon. He did not even say bacon was bad (bacon is, obviously, unbad). God said "no bacon!" And they were to obey.
I think sometimes where theology goes bad is in that desire for knowledge, to know as God knows.
I have to admit I have been guilty of that various times in the past!
It's good to have someone around who will remind us we need to pay closer attention to exactly what the Scripture says and doesn't necessarily say.
Think better to state that the Son was with the Father, and that both are God
37818
Well-Known Member
Understanding it how God reveals Himself. Not modes, but through distinct Persons. God's presence is an Omnipresence (everywhere). Why He limited it in just three Persons, maybe we need to understand that? The Father, the Son, as Creator and being Holy Spirit.
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I've studied the Trinity from different scholars and they definitely gave some understanding, but as far as how 3 distinct persons can be one God is not explainable, at least not to logic with the mortal mind.
37818
Well-Known Member
No. The Word was both with God and was God. John 1:1-2. John 1:3. John 1:14.
Bible states to us was with the Father as his eternal Word
I think we all want to know as God knows. This is in our nature. Remember that fruit that was desired to make one wise? Well, they ate it.
I also remember my childhood. Dad says "do this". I ask "Why?".
It seemed the most natural thing to ask. Anyway, it was just three letters, a very little word.
I do not know how such a small word can bring about such a big response.
I got "because I said so", sometimes followed by some type of physical encouragement in the form of a belt.
The military was the same way. Some SGT says dig this hole.
Doesn't look like a hole needs to be dug.
I learned, however, to dig the hole.
Turns out digging the hole is easier than pondering the reason the hole needs to be dug.
When I became a SGT I learned the answer.
The SGT doesn't know why the hole needs to be dug.
He was told to get the hole dug.
Such is life. We always want to know more than we can know.
You know the saying - curiosity killed the cat?
Sometimes thr observant cat see its clowder decreasing.
Sometimes the cat learns that curiosity can kill it.
Sometimes the cat puts aside that feline curiosity.
Sometimes it makes DoGs bark at the cat.
But the cat don't care.
I think we all want to know as God knows. This is in our nature. Remember that fruit that was desired to make one wise? Well, they ate it.
I also remember my childhood. Dad says "do this". I ask "Why?".
It seemed the most natural thing to ask. Anyway, it was just three letters, a very little word.
I do not know how such a small word can bring about such a big response.
I got "because I said so", sometimes followed by some type of physical encouragement in the form of a belt.
The military was the same way. Some SGT says dig this hole.
Doesn't look like a hole needs to be dug.
I learned, however, to dig the hole.
Turns out digging the hole is easier than pondering the reason the hole needs to be dug.
When I became a SGT I learned the answer.
The SGT doesn't know why the hole needs to be dug.
He was told to get the hole dug.
Such is life. We always want to know more than we can know.
You know the saying - curiosity killed the cat?
Sometimes thr observant cat see its clowder decreasing.
Sometimes the cat learns that curiosity can kill it.
Sometimes the cat puts aside that feline curiosity.
Sometimes it makes DoGs bark at the cat.
But the cat don't care.
Good examples!
I can really resonate with the military example.
When I was in basic training the Drill Instructor asked if there were an duck hunters in formation. That was my thing in those days, so I spoke up.
I think there were 3 of us that spent the day picking up cigarette ducks on post.
I was young and didn't understand then, but I picked up the ducks.
37818
Well-Known Member
" . . . with the Father as his eternal Word." But where?
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God...."
It's reference to "The Eternal Logos." Logos Greek for Word.
"The Eternal Word/Logos."
37818
Well-Known Member
That phrase "Eternal Word" is used where?
Yes, what we got is, "In the beginning was the Word."
John said, "In the beginning," he's referring to the beginning of creation.
His point is that Christ existed at that time, and later we learn He/Christ is the Creator Himself.
This is what @JonC has been warning us about, this part right here.
Most scholars will tell you this is referring to Christs' eternal state as the Eternal Logos.
But as I'm sure Jon will point out it doesn't say that, and he will be right.
I am trying to understand your position here.
Before the beginning, what do you view the relationship between the Persons of the Trinity to have been?
I know the answer "God", but I mean are you saying that God became a Triune God at the beginning of Creation?
Yep. JonC can't remember last week very well, so he isn't overly concerned about what happened before the beginning.