Types of Calvinists

Hello drfuss. I'll try to help as much as I can. I am what is called a 5 point calvinist. I believe all 5 points as you have listed. Many people fall somewhere in between. Probably the hardest of the points is limited attonement. I don't like that terminology.... as Christ's work on the cross was certainly not limited. One drop of His blood would have been sufficient for 100 worlds of sinners. What is maybe a better term is particular redemption. When one believes, he is justified by the blood of Christ. Justification is being found not guilty. Just as if i'd never sinned. If Jesus shed His blood for every individual of all time.... then none would be lost ever. Of course there are many verses of scripture that include *all* or the *world* or whole world. These are not always inclusive as in including all individuals who ever existed. For example... if I said the whole world knew that.... I wouldn't necessarily mean the whole world... but in a manner of speech. The whole world could also mean all races of people.... the whole world of races of people. These are examples of the problems with *limited attonement*. Those who believe that the words all and the whole world mean litterally that... have a problem with universal salvation. According to the Bible, not all will be saved. There are many 4 pointers who may believe in limited attonement but may not believe in irrestible grace... or any one of the other points.... it is not set in stone. The doctrines of grace are not easily studied in one day. It usually takes people quite quite a lot of study to come to understand any... much less all of it. That is why when you run into a calvinist, you will usually see someone who has really done a lot of study into doctrine. This in no way means a non calvinist does not study, its just that in order to really understand the doctrines of grace, a lot will be required. I have met many that have never heard of the doctrines of grace, but say that is the way they have always believed. They just didn't have a name for it. Hope this helps, and I'd be glad to answer any more questions that I can. Grace and peace

 

drfuss. I meant to define a hyper calvinist for you. A hyper calvinist would be one who does not believe missions is necessary. They would also believe in double predestination. Double predestination is the belief that one is predestined to salvation and also to damnation. God does not predestine anyone to damnation, he just leaves them to their own nature and they freely choose to not believe. I know a lot of people have a problem with that.... I'm just informing you of the views. A hyper calvinist may or may not believe in both of these. One may believe in double predestination or one may believe that no missions are necessary. Any form of hyper calvinism is not biblical.

 

RE:Calvinism

Someone can correct me if I am wrong here but under the term Hyper Calvinist fall the two terms Supralapsarian and Sublapsarian.

The former believing (generally speaking) that God predetermined a certain number would be saved and a certain number would be lost (prior to creation) and that both the saved and the lost would be a testament to the glory of God and his sovereignty.

The later believe that God created man and placed him in an environment of a works based worship and allowed him to fall thereby setting in motion God’s sovereign mercy by which some are elect to salvation and the rest are consigned to righteous judgment.

Either way a Hyper Calvinist would believe in total predestination being either eternally secure or eternally damned by God’s righteous sovereignty.

 

Help me Lord to restrain myself!!raying:

 

Brother Bob, what you were just dying to say was the three types of Calvinists are Moe, Larry, and Curly. :laugh:

 

Supralapsarian is one of the top held views of soteriological elements of God's decree's

Supralapsarianism <<---Hyper Calvinist (or I should say, all that I have meet. Though this does not make a Hyper-Calvinist..or at least in my view it does not)
Elect some, reprobate rest
Create
Permit Fall
Provide salvation for elect
Call elect to salvation

Infralapsarianism<<< most other Calvinist
Create
Permit Fall
Elect some, pass over the rest
Provide salvation for elect
Call elect to salvation

Amyraldism
Create
Permit Fall
Provide salvation sufficient for all
Elect some, pass over rest
Call elect to salvation

Arminianism
Create
Permit Fall
Provide salvation for all
Call all to salvation
Elect those who believe
***************************

That is the order of events. Not to talk down to anyone, but maybe a wording wold help.

In Supralapsarianism election is pure decree. So it is as if God makes one man and places this one in the elect box. God makes the next man and places him in the reprobate box. In "super" this is done to each man with Gods pleasure of making man that way He sees fit.

In Infralapsarianism election is from the fact of Mans fallen state and His blinded Sin Nature. Election then is mercy on the ones He choose to love and take as His bride (as a church group) out of the mass of sinners. The others are left to their own sin.

*******************

Hyper-Calvinist to me are those that focus mainly on one point...

That being..Irristable Grace. This is why they do not believe in missions.

 

We must all pray Saturneptune; raying: raying: :laugh:

 

Have a cold pop Bob...and take the night off.

If the thread is still here tomorrow....come and get it.

 

JAuthor;
That is the nicest thing you ever said about us. Thank you,

 

Saturn,

You have said you are a Calvinist. But you have never shared your views. How many points to you believe..and why?

 

Don't get to use to it bob...you know how i am.

:saint: :saint:

 

James,
It was a joke. No, I do not believe Moe, Larry, and Curly were students of Calvin. Lighten up, man. Have a coke. (maybe diet)

 

I know James, you need to work on that.

 

I think I know them Saturneptune and they are Calvinist.:laugh:

 

Yes..I knew you were joking. I do have some laugh in me.

But I was asking for real, what points of Calvin do you hold to?

 

If memory serves me correctly, many other threads addressed that, with Dale, Bob, you and I in them. All five points that you went over I believe. Many, many times this has been discussed between myself and Brother Bob for sure. We have a way of talking to each other that does not bring about the strong feelings others seem to bring out.

What got us off on the wrong foot in the other thread (and Dale) was not the agreement or disagreement over doctrine, it was the percpetion that some people who believe in God's complete sovereignty appear arrogant and condecending. One of the things I have never learned to do in life is deal with those with those personalities. But then, as so many have pointed out here, the complete person never comes out in this forum, so its a matter of an impression of writing.

Once again, reading the Bible, one can only come to the conclusion that God is completely sovereign. All the "5 points" are logical conclusions of that fact. To me, it is one of those issues that people feel very strongly about one way or the other, and it seems to serve to purpose in constantly battering the issue. "As SBC preacher said one time "We will not be for sure about this issue until eternity."

Defending the faith is very important, however, I have seen this issue taken to such an extreme on this board that Calvinists question arminian salvation and vice versa. We are here to spread the Gospel. Time is precious. Do we really have all that much time to argue this when people are lost? Do the lost care about deep theological arguments at the time?

The name "Calvin" should have never been attached to such principles. This causes some of the problem.

Peace to you.

 

BTW...I was one of these. I heard the name Calvinism, but I had no idea what it was. I held to the doctrines of grace and when I started sharing this with others, they called me a Calvinist. At 1st I told them I was not, for I had never read Calvin, and to me it sounded like "following" a man. I didn't even know the 5 points. I now know what they mean, and I say that I am a Calvinist. It did take me a while to take on the atonement part. I too feel it is the lable "limited" that scares people. Limited was used to make the L in TULIP. What does TUPIP spell? Nothing.

 

Not sure if this has been made clear - not all supralapsarians are hypercalvinists, but all hypercalvinists are supralapsarians.

Here's my opinion on the point system:

5 points - Calvinist
4 points - Rejects Limited Atonement, but still a calvinist
3 points - confused, will progress to 4 or 5 points when the confusion clears.
less than 3 points - a budding calvinist, or, an arminian that prefers to think of himself as a calvinist.

So called 1-pointers ("calminians") are arminians that reject the doctrine of falling away from grace.

Modern baptists typically are under revivalist influences (Finney) and doctrinally are a mixed bag of pelagianism, arminianism, and some calvinism.