Unam Sanctam--only Catholics go to Heaven

[Agnus_Dei]

If a baptist were to be sharing with a lost person the subject of his Baptist church will never come up. The gospel of Jesus Christ will. They will never tell them that they must come under the umbrella of "Holy Mother Church"...the Baptist Church of Nashville Tennessee...to be saved.

Wrong…

With the exception of the past 3 years, I’ve been a fundamental Baptist and you better believe that when we went door knocking and by chance a person was saved, we were taught to encourage him or her to attend a “good bible believing fundamental Baptist Church” Not the corner “Christian” Church with a broadway production or a Church of Christ or an Assemblies of God…ect.

Why? Because I was taught as a fundy, that our Church was the Church traceable to Christ and His Apostles, all other Churches were false and needed to hear the Gospel and that included other Protestant Churches, b/c as a Fundy, we weren’t “Protestant”, we were the “true Church”, therefore for one to be saved, “the right way”, they needed to attend a Fundamental Baptist Church…

Now that I left the fundamental Baptist Church, my parents think that I am now lost…no joke, it’s sad…

 

[JamieinNH]

Tragic Pizza...

(That would be any pizza with mushrooms..yech!..on it, btw)



No they dont. They want everyone to get born again and be christians.

If a baptist were to be sharing with a lost person the subject of his Baptist church will never come up. The gospel of Jesus Christ will. They will never tell them that they must come under the umbrella of "Holy Mother Church"...the Baptist Church of Nashville Tennessee...to be saved.

But Catholics might very well tell someone that they must come under the umbrella of the Catholic Church of Rome...to be saved.

For the Baptist, if that one he or she were witnessing to were to repent and recieve eternal life during the conversation, the brother or sister might invite them to their place of fellowship, because its a kind thing to do. But if they dont want to that would be fine, and they would just be advised to find a fellowship somewhere and get "plugged in" with other born again people.

I'm not a Baptist btw.

God bless,

Mike

Nicely put Mike.


Jamie

 

[church mouse guy]

We have all types of attempts at softening the RCC position but we have no formal legal statement from The Vatican, which receives ambassadors, that the doctrine has been set aside.

I think that American Catholics are told one thing and Latin American Catholics or European Catholics, for examples, are told another.

Clearly, the dark side of the RCC is not popular in the USA, which was founded at a time when about 1% of the population was Catholic so that the USA does not have RCC roots.

As for the accuracy of the quotations from Pope Pius IX, no I was unaware of the controversy about the quotation and I will await for comment from others before I make a decision about it since I do not have the time to delve into this question.

However, I do not believe that the Roman Catholic Church existed before 1054 AD, when Christians were split into two groups of the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox denominations.

I think that the central fact remains that for the last 700 years all popes have taught that only Roman Catholics go to Heaven and all others go to hell.

There has been a lot of talk about slavery as if Roman Catholics and Presbyterians never held slaves but more importantly the issue of slavery really has nothing to do with the Catholic doctrine of Unam Sanctam, meaning that there is only One Holy, the Roman Catholic Church--which has said that all non-Catholics go to the lake of fire for the last 700 years.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

As for the accuracy of the quotations from Pope Pius IX, no I was unaware of the controversy about the quotation and I will await for comment from others before I make a decision about it since I do not have the time to delve into this question.

So you’re going to wait for others to verify the quote and take their word for it? Why not do your own research and from legitimate sources that aren’t biased and have an agenda? As you said in an earlier post you wanted to represent the Catholic Church accurately, then why not.

Are you afraid that you may be shocked to find that what you taught or once believed is a lie? You should be…I was shocked…and ashamed, after how I talked to Catholics and much less anyone that wasn’t a fundy and believed exactly as I…

However, I do not believe that the Roman Catholic Church existed before 1054 AD, when Christians were split into two groups of the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox denominations.

Have you studied early Church history on your on and verified this statment?

 

[D28guy]

Agnus Dei,

"Wrong…

With the exception of the past 3 years, I’ve been a fundamental Baptist and you better believe that when we went door knocking and by chance a person was saved, we were taught to encourage him or her to attend a “good bible believing fundamental Baptist Church” Not the corner “Christian” Church with a broadway production or a Church of Christ or an Assemblies of God…ect.

Why? Because I was taught as a fundy, that our Church was the Church traceable to Christ and His Apostles, all other Churches were false and needed to hear the Gospel and that included other Protestant Churches, b/c as a Fundy, we weren’t “Protestant”, we were the “true Church”, therefore for one to be saved, “the right way”, they needed to attend a Fundamental Baptist Church…"

Well, that certainly isnt the norm in the evangelical/charismatic world, and you would probably acknowledge that it isnt.

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

[church mouse guy]

I find it offensive that Fundamentalists are called "fundys."

 

[tragic_pizza]

I find it offensive that Fundies consistently call the Catholic Church apostate and a whore.

And I'm not Catholic.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Given some of the jokes you've said about baptists, I'd say you got some nerve being offended.

However, the term "fundy" isn't all that offensive, to me. So I can see why you posted that. Good day to ya, TP.

 

[DHK]

Wrong…

With the exception of the past 3 years, I’ve been a fundamental Baptist and you better believe that when we went door knocking and by chance a person was saved, we were taught to encourage him or her to attend a “good bible believing fundamental Baptist Church” Not the corner “Christian” Church with a broadway production or a Church of Christ or an Assemblies of God…ect.

Why? Because I was taught as a fundy, that our Church was the Church traceable to Christ and His Apostles, all other Churches were false and needed to hear the Gospel and that included other Protestant Churches, b/c as a Fundy, we weren’t “Protestant”, we were the “true Church”, therefore for one to be saved, “the right way”, they needed to attend a Fundamental Baptist Church…

Now that I left the fundamental Baptist Church, my parents think that I am now lost…no joke, it’s sad…

I don't live in America, but I have traveled through more than two thirds of its states. I have noticed than in some of its cities there seems to be a Baptist church on almost every block, thus resulting in a lot of competition. Perhaps that was the case where you were. I don't know. You obviously didn't have a good experience for one reason or another.
But what you have done is mis-characterized Baptist churches based on your one experience, and not on truth. Now look at truth. Do Baptists claim that there were those that believed the same way that they believed in every age right down to the time of the Apostles though they may have been called by different names? Yes they believe that? Can you point to a definite founder of the Baptists? No you cannot. Can we point to a definite time and starting place of the Catholic Church? Yes. It was at the beginning of the fourth century during the time of Constantine--whether you want to admit it or not.

Concerning evangelization: Do Catholics evangelize with the goal in mind of converting someone to the RCC. Absolutely. Their goal is not the salvation of their soul Their goal is to get them into the RCC. They don't even know what it means to be "born again," and I don't think you know what it means either.

Concerning evangleization: Does a Baptist try to get them into a Baptist church. No. that is not his first and foremost concern. It is the preaching of the gospel--trying to lead him to a knowledge of Christ that he might be saved. Salvation is pre-eminent. Second to that, is to get that person into a Bible-believing church. It only makes sense if you are representing your church to invite him there. But there are many occasions where that person may live in another part of the city where our church is out of the way--too far for him to come. So we recommend him to another church in that area, as long as it is a Bible-believing church that preaches faithfully the Word of God. Never would we recommend him to an apostate organization such as the RCC. Billy Graham does that, but we would not. And that is the difference. There is no need to misalign us based on your one bad experience.

 

[church mouse guy]

No one here has used those words except you, Tragic

I find it offensive that Fundies consistently call the Catholic Church apostate and a whore.

And I'm not Catholic.

We know that you are a liberal Presbyterian (PCUSA). As for the word apostate it is a perfectly proper theological term. As for calling the RCC the name used in Revelation, you know very well that no one here has even mentioned that subject. Once again you are outside of the parameters of the discussion evidently trying to sidetrack the debate, which you have lost so far, Tragic. :laugh:

 

[gb93433]

Catholic countries are the poorest countries in the Christian world!

The poorest area of the U.S. in almost every way is the southern part. It is also the same area where there are the most Baptists.

So what is your point?

 

[gb93433]

Was salvery at one point a "right" in America? Can you supply one Scripture that shows slavery being sin? It is now against the law, but so was alcohol at one point during the prohibition.

Stealing people is the same as stealing.

Exodus 20:15 "You shall not steal."

 

[church mouse guy]

Yankee imperialism and rednecks.

The poorest area of the U.S. in almost every way is the southern part. It is also the same area where there are the most Baptists.

So what is your point?

You should read Thomas Sowell's book White Liberals and Black Rednecks but that is off the subject. The poverty of the south is in large measure due to Yankee imperialism after the Civil War. More to the subject of the poverty of Catholic countries, it deals with the lack of a Protestant work ethic that says that if you don't work you don't eat, as you know. Also, Catholic countries have a high rate of illiteracy because there is no need to read the Scripture for yourself when it requires a priest to explain it to you. Also, as we have seen on this thread, Catholicism has a great deal of intolerance for others. I am sure that someone reading this knows of the hard ways of Catholicism towards Protestants in Mexico and other nations of Latin America. I think that those reasons are why I think as DonnA does.

:type:

cmg

 

[JamieinNH]

Hiya Church Mouse guy,

Thanks for posting the information. In reading over this thread and doing some searching, I have found this concerning this thread.

LINK

It was an interesting read. Living up here in New England, there are a lot of Catholic churches around, and the more I read and hear about them, the more I am glad I am a protestant believer.

Jamie

 

[DHK]

One may look at it this way using both the Bible and RCC theology.
The Bible says:
John 3:3 "Except a man be born again he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God?"

Ask Agnus or any Catholic for that matter, "What does it mean to be born again?"

Their catechism teaches that to be born again means to be baptized.
It specifically refers to the baptism of the RCC.

Thus to be born again one must be a member of the RCC.
There is no salvation outside of the RCC.

 

[Darron Steele]

...More to the subject of the poverty of Catholic countries, it deals with the lack of a Protestant work ethic that says that if you don't work you don't eat, as you know. Also, Catholic countries have a high rate of illiteracy because there is no need to read the Scripture for yourself when it requires a priest to explain it to you. ...

This was just mean. I have been to two Latin American countries: Colombia and Brazil.

Actually, the reason why the high rate of illiteracy is a lack of resources for education. Poverty breeds a lack of education. Also, it is not realistic for many to go to school when they have to work all day and most of the evening to avoid starvation/exposure and help each other to avoid starvation/exposure.

Priests are commonly just as under-educated as most of the common people.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Hiya Church Mouse guy,

Thanks for posting the information. In reading over this thread and doing some searching, I have found this concerning this thread.

LINK

It was an interesting read. Living up here in New England, there are a lot of Catholic churches around, and the more I read and hear about them, the more I am glad I am a protestant believer.

Jamie

Jamie looks like your link is yet another paste and cut job. Did you bother to investigate and verify the quotes taken from the source you linked? Maybe you should. For example:

Your Pope Pius IX quote failed to quote the next sentence after:

but, on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, are not stained by any guilt in this matter in the eyes of God.

Since I've already exposed two quotes here just on this thread, I'll bet the rest are lacking in revealing the full context of the quotes...imagine that...

What a shame…its sad that you guys will post quotes from sources who just don’t disagree with Catholicism, but openly oppose it, often by what you readers would suspects as base motives. You guys accept at face value any claim made by an enemy of the Church. Even when simple verification of a charge is easily accessible, but you fail to check it up. If it’s unflattering then you post it.

But keep on posting and I along with others will continue to expose those for whom they really are.

 

[JamieinNH]

I am not going to go point by point with you. I will tell you this. I was searching around, because of this thread, and found that link. I didn't state anything about the accuracy or if the statements were true or not. Stop trying to spin it like I did. Nice try.

Also, my experience with the Catholic faith is first hand. I work at a Catholic hospital and have had many talks with the Father there and the sisters. I also have many friends that are Catholic, and if you would review my other posts, or even try to get to know me before you JUMP to conclusions, I have nothing against people that are Catholic, however that being said, I am still glad I am not a Catholic.

Maybe it is you that should investiage and learn about a poster before you jump down their throat.

Jamie

Jamie looks like your link is yet another paste and cut job. Did you bother to investigate and verify the quotes taken from the source you linked? Maybe you should. For example:

Your Pope Pius IX quote failed to quote the next sentence after:

but, on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, are not stained by any guilt in this matter in the eyes of God.

Since I've already exposed two quotes here just on this thread, I'll bet the rest are lacking in revealing the full context of the quotes...imagine that...

What a shame…its sad that you guys will post quotes from sources who just don’t disagree with Catholicism, but openly oppose it, often by what you readers would suspects as base motives. You guys accept at face value any claim made by an enemy of the Church. Even when simple verification of a charge is easily accessible, but you fail to check it up. If it’s unflattering then you post it.

But keep on posting and I along with others will continue to expose those for whom they really are.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
The RCC claims that here doctrines are "infallible" they can not be in error - so the decrees and laws of the Lateran IV for example MUST continue to hold as "flawlessly infallible".

That means that STILL today we find the RCC teaching that ONLY Catholics participate in the Bible NEW COVENANT for the NEW COVENANT is LIMITED to the Catholic Mass.

This is their claim STILL TODAY!!

The difference is that TODAY they agree to ADD "extrabiblical means" of salvation to be open to non-Catholics.

Something I doubt any non-Catholic would consider "valid".

In Christ,

Bob

Darron said
Okay, I know everyone wants to use a document from 1302 and disregard present Catholic teaching. However, let me link you to a 1964 document of the Vatican:

Don't get me wrong -- nothing would make me happier than to hear that the RCC now rejects it's own canon law along with Lateran IV.

Please tell us this is true --

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Eliyahu's most informative post -- just had to make sure we all did not forget it.

The Robber at the Cross went to Paradise without knowing the Catholic church, did he know it?

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, (1445)

Council of Florence, Bull Cantate Domino, 1441: "The most Holy Roman Catholic Church firmly believes, professes, and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."

Council of Trent, (1563)
Pope Gregory XIII, (1572-1585)

"No one can be saved outside this true Catholic faith." (Profession of Faith, D. 1085, D. 1000

Pope Benedict XIV, (1740-1758)

"No one can be saved without the faith of the Catholic Church." (Nuper Ad Nos, D. 1473)

Pope Leo XII, (1823-1829)

Pope Leo XII (A.D. 1823 - 1829): "We profess that there is no salvation outside the Church. ...For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: `If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.'" (Encyclical, Ubi Primum)

Pope Pius VIII, (1829-1830)

"It will be especially fitting to remember this firm dogma of our religion: that outside the true Catholic faith no one can be saved." (cf. Recollections of the Last Four Popes, Cardinal Nicholas Wiseman, London: 1858)

Pope Gregory XVI, (1831-1846)

Pope Gregory XVI (A.D. 1831 - 1846): "It is not possible to worship God truly except in Her; all who are outside Her will not be saved." (Encyclical, Summo Jugiter)

Pope Pius IX (A.D. 1846 - 1878)

"It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood." (Denzinger 1647

http://www.geocities.com/orthopapism/eens_papal.html