Under Grace or Under Law?...Round 3

[DHK]

Also, the verbs of the verbs. What is that?

That was a mistake and a half. I went in and corrected it. (tense of the verbs). Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[DHK]

Bob, Bob, Bob...

We ain't gotta adhere to no commandments. (least that is what I am getting from DHK)

You are so right. If adhering to the commandments would get you saved you would be condemned no matter what you did.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

You are cursed under the law precisely because yoiu cannot keep the law. That is the teaching here. Verse 13 gives us the answer. Christ was made a curse for us because we could not keep the law, because we are sinners, and he is not. The just died for the unjust. It is impossible for anyone to keep the law.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Yet you deny the clear teaching of the Word of God when Christ said to keep His commandments and when John said if we don't keep His commandments we do not know Him when you say we don't have to adhere to the commandments.

 

[D28guy]

Brother Bob,

DHK posted...

"
Matthew 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

And you then said...

Ok, but that not breaking the Ten Commandments that I see.'

Huh?

Where do you get this weird idea that the 10 commandments are more important than any others?

The word of God...

"Yet whoever shall keep the whole law, yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all"

Christ taught that looking at someone with lust (not in the 10 commandments) makes one guilty of adultery, and unjustified anger (not in the 10 commandments) makes one guilty of murder.

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

[Diggin in da Word]

I will shake the dust from this thread off of my feet since you do not believe my report, nor the clear teaching of the Word of God from which I received it.

 

[D28guy]

Diggin,

"Why is it so hard for people to understand that just because they said a prayer doesn't mean they truly are saved?

Hmmmm.

Well, you are correct if they dont mean it and are just mouthing words. But if they mean it, lets take a look at some actual examples...

The thief on the cross...

"Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom"

Christs judgment?...

"Today you will be with me in paradise"

The publican in the Temple...

"God, be merciful to me a sinner"

Christs judgement?...

"That man went away justified, rather than the other"

You say one thing, God says another.

I believe God.

Mike

 

[DHK]

I will shake the dust from this thread off of my feet since you do not believe my report, nor the clear teaching of the Word of God from which I received it.

Diggin, Although the Gnostics were involved in some serious heresy (denying the humanity of Christ), one of the main characteristics of their belief was that they had secret knowledge that no one else had--thus the name gnostic from the Greek gnosis meaning knowledge. (hidden knowledge)That is what they claimed. They claimed to have access to some kind of hidden knowledge about the Bible and Christ that others could not attain. In this sense you are acting just like a Gnostic, the very heresy that the apostle John was combatting in his first epistle.

You say: "Since you do not believe my report, nor the clear teaching of the Word of God from which I received it. How did you receive it? How do you know that yours is the clear teaching of the Word of God. Are you a Gnostic? This is gnosticism when you are claiming to have recieved knowledge that no one else has, and that only yours is the correct one.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

1 John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

How much clearer does it have to be?

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

 

[Brother Bob]

Huh?

Where do you get this weird idea that the 10 commandments are more important than any others?

The word of God...

"Yet whoever shall keep the whole law, yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all"

Because the Ten are the ones the Lord came preaching and are the one brought in the ark to the promised land. They are the Ones Apostle Paul Spoke of as being Holy and He also as Jesus preached them.

Christ taught that looking at someone with lust (not in the 10 commandments) makes one guilty of adultery, and unjustified anger (not in the 10 commandments) makes one guilty of murder.

Grace and peace,

Mike

Good think you were not around when the Lord came preaching for you would of confronted Him also. Don't you think it strange that Jesus preached exactly what I preach or the other way around.

 

[BobRyan]

Brother Bob,

Christ taught that looking at someone with lust (not in the 10 commandments) makes one guilty of adultery, and unjustified anger (not in the 10 commandments) makes one guilty of murder.

Christ is the author of the Ten Commandments. Christ's statements in Matt 6 are the pre-cross facts about the Law of God the extent to which it applies.

Christ was not abolishing His Word or Law or Commands when saying this [re=Cross- He was showing its scope and depth.

As Paul says in 2Cor 10:4 we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ"

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Brother Bob]

D28;
I have gathered enough from you posting that you don't believe it right to break the Ten Commandments. You don't believe in committing adultery, killing, stealing, idol Gods, I would assume you honored your father and mother. So, I wonder why you spend so much time trying to condemn the Ten Commandments. You really think the Lord is please with you teaching others that the Ten Commandments are not to be kept?

Why on earth would you follow such a path. And you live in Kentucky too.

 

[DHK]

Because the Ten are the ones the Lord came preaching

I would like to see you demonstrate that from the Bible.
Where do you get "You must be born again" from the Ten Commandments?

 

[Claudia_T]

I would like to see you demonstrate that from the Bible.
Where do you get "You must be born again" from the Ten Commandments?

1Jn:5:18: We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1Jn:3:4: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1Jn:2:29: If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1Jn:4:7: Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1Jn:3:9: Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[Brother Bob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Because the Ten are the ones the Lord came preaching

I would like to see you demonstrate that from the Bible.
Where do you get "You must be born again" from the Ten Commandments?
__________________
DHK

Thanks Claudia;
I don't need if I need to add anything or not but I will give this one.


Mar 10:19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Luk 18:18¶And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?


Luk 18:20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

Don't make any difference with you if I post scripture to support it. You haven't accepted the scriptures yet that support breaking the Commandments is sin.

Luk 18:22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. (Be born again)

You can't be a follower of Christ without being born again.

 

[D28guy]

Brother Bob,

"
D28;
I have gathered enough from you posting that you don't believe it right to break the Ten Commandments."

Of course it isnt right.

"You don't believe in committing adultery, killing, stealing, idol Gods, I would assume you honored your father and mother. "

Correct.

"So, I wonder why you spend so much time trying to condemn the Ten Commandments."

I am not trying to "condemn" the 10 commandments. I am only keeping them in their proper place in the "grand scheeme of things" as the old saying goes.

The scriptures of God consist of surely hundreds of thousands of verses, and the 10 commandments make up a mere handful of those hundreds of thousands. There are multitudes upon multitudes upon multitudes of passages of scripture all through the scriptures that are every bit as profound, important, meaningful, powerful and beneficial than those few verses that we have called "the 10 commandments." Those scriptures that contain those admonitions are wonderful and needful, but they have their scripturally identified place and purpose.

"You really think the Lord is please with you teaching others that the Ten Commandments are not to be kept?"

Not to be kept? Where have I ever promoted the idea that we are to deliberatly steal, commit adultery, dishonor our parents and commit idolatry? Thats lunacy.

All I have been sharing is the biblical truth that we are freed from and no longer under the Law. We are free from the burden of it, its condemnation, and the curse of being "under" it.

"Why on earth would you follow such a path.

The path that you said I've been on? I've never been on that path. The path that I just shared in my previous statement..I'll be on that path the rest of my natural life as God permits.

"And you live in Kentucky too.

You better believe it! Dont you kind of feel sorry for all those other people all across this nation that dont get to live here? :thumbs: Its like we've been given a little preliminary glimpse of heaven!

God bless,

Mike

 

[DHK]

1Jn:5:18: We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1Jn:3:4: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1Jn:2:29: If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1Jn:4:7: Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1Jn:3:9: Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Claudia your statement does nothing to answer the question.
The statement was:

the Ten are the ones the Lord came preaching

That statement was made by Brother Bob.
Now if you have been reading the posts, my challenge was to demonstrate through the gospels where Jesus came preaching the Ten Commandments. "You must be born again" is not the Ten Commandments. Neither is the First Epistle of John the word of Jesus. Pay attention!!

 

[Brother Bob]

Not to be kept? Where have I ever promoted the idea that we are to deliberatly steal, commit adultery, dishonor our parents and commit idolatry? Thats lunacy.

How do you commit adultery and it not be deliberate?

So you do believe we have to keep them?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

The first epistle of John not the Word of Jesus? My Bible tells me Holy men of God wrote as inspired by the Spirit. Since the Father, Word, and the Spirit are one and agree as one, I can safely say Every book of the Bible is the Word of Jesus.

 

[BobRyan]

The scriptures of God consist of surely hundreds of thousands of verses, and the 10 commandments make up a mere handful of those hundreds of thousands. There are multitudes upon multitudes upon multitudes of passages of scripture all through the scriptures that are every bit as profound, important, meaningful, powerful and beneficial than those few verses that we have called "the 10 commandments." Those scriptures that contain those admonitions are wonderful and needful, but they have their scripturally identified place and purpose.


Not to be kept? Where have I ever promoted the idea that we are to deliberatly steal, commit adultery, dishonor our parents and commit idolatry? Thats lunacy.

So then you admit to the authority of scripture and it's binding nature upon mankind as well as the NTstatements showing that the saints are the ones keeping the commandments of God.

We are not under the condemnation of the law - but we are under obligation to obey the Word of God -- EVEN if it is in a form of a command (a surprising point for some) .

Db28guy
All I have been sharing is the biblical truth that we are freed from and no longer under the Law. We are free from the burden of it, its condemnation

Indeed no longer under it's curse which curses those found guilty and declares them deserving of the 2nd death - lake of fire.

Yet we ARE under obligation to KEEP it - to OBEY it for as you point out it IS God's Word.

"These things I write to you that you SIN NOT but if anyone does sin we HAVE an advocate with the Father" 1John 2:1.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

D28guy: Not to be kept? Where have I ever promoted the idea that we are to deliberatly steal, commit adultery, dishonor our parents and commit idolatry? Thats lunacy.

HP: Lunacy: Not keeping what does not have to be kept.