1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Untranslated Words in Translations

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Deacon, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    1,337
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I came across a few untranslated words while checking cross references and thought a thread might be started to collect these words from various translations.

    I'm reminded that the word BAPTISM was originally one of these words which has since been added to our common language vocabulary.


    I will sow her in the land for myself,
    and I will have compassion on Lo-ruhamah;​
    I will say to Lo-ammi: You are my people,
    and he will say, “You are my God.” Hosea 2:23 (CSB) ​

    Rob
     
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hosea 2:23 I will sow her to me in the earth; and I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy; and I will tell those who were not my people, ‘You are my people;’ and they will say, ‘My God!’” WEB
     
  3. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    1,337
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Perhaps I'm not communicating clearly - I'm looking for untranslated words, transliterations (in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek) in various translations

    Here's one from the Psalms in a translation you use

    Psalm 46:title
    To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of the Sons of Korah. A Song For Alamoth. (NKJV)
    Rob
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    One New Testament word (translated as "behold" or "look" is translated faithfully in some translations and omitted from the translation about 50% of the time in others. This is especially true when we look at more liberal, loose, thought for thought translations.

    In your example a word probably meaning "young women" was not translated, but instead a transliteration was used (Alamouth.)
    So, guessing, you want to collect words that are simply transliterations, rather than translated. One place where I expect to find this practice is with place names. Additionally we find places where the transliteration appears, and then the word is translated.

    I would be surprised if we could "reverse engineer" a method for using transliterations. I expect the practice is willy nilly.
     
  5. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    1,337
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He took her by the hand and said to her, “Talitha koum!” (which means “Little girl, I say to you, get up!”).
    Mark 5:41 (NIV)
     
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,537
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

    HankD
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,537
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Matthew 5:22 ... and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council...

    John 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

    KJV Daniel 5:25 And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    1,337
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Had a little time this afternoon after church to look at how various translations handled transliterations.
    It's common practice with places and names (see Genesis 14 for many examples).

    In the particular case of Hosea 2:23 the Christian Standard Bible is consistent in following this practice. Unfortunately it does not add a footnote of translation to assist those who don't know Hebrew and don't follow the antithetical response.

    The NET does better there

    Then I will plant her as my own in the land. I will have pity on ‘No Pity’ (Lo-Ruhamah). I will say to ‘Not My People’ (Lo-Ammi), ‘You are my people!’ And he will say, ‘You are my God!’ ” Hosea 2:23 (NET)
    Rob
     
  9. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    464
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The 1560 Geneva Bible and 1853 Leeser's Old Testament agree with the NKJV reading at Song of Solomon 6:12: "chariots of my noble people" while the 1535 Coverdale's Bible and 1537 Matthew's Bible have "the chariots of the prince of my people."

    The Companion Bible noted that the KJV followed the Septuagint, Arabic, Ethiopic, and Latin Vulgate by treating this phrase as a proper name "Ammi-nadib" while the Hebrew is "the chariots of my people, the noble," or "of my noble people" (p. 927).
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
  11. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    464
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Gen. 24:62 Beer-lahai-roi (Geneva) well Lahari-roi (KJV) Beer Lahai Roi (NKJV)

    Gen. 25:11 Beer-lahai-roi (Geneva) well Lahai-roi (KJV) Beer Lahai Roi (NKJV)
     
  12. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    464
    Faith:
    Baptist
    2 Sam. 21:16 sons of Haraphah (1560 Geneva Bible) sons of the giant (KJV, NKJV)

    2 Sam. 21:18 sons of Haraphah (Geneva) sons of the giant (KJV, NKJV)

    2 Sam. 21:20 son of Haraphah (Geneva) born to the giant (KJV, NKJV)
     
  13. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    464
    Faith:
    Baptist
    2 Chron. 27:3 wall of the castle (1560 Geneva Bible) wall of Ophel (KJV, NKJV)
     
  14. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,162
    Likes Received:
    163
    Faith:
    Baptist
    1 Chr 26:18 - Parbar.
     
  15. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    1,337
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Quite a few places and names are transliterations, as it should be

    1 Chronicles 26:18 is interesting

    As for the court on the west, there were four at the highway and two at the court. (CSB)

    As for the court to the west, there were four at the road and two at the court itself. (NIV)

    And for the colonnade on the west there were four at the road and two at the colonnade. (ESV)

    At the Parbar on the west there were four at the highway and two at the Parbar. (NASB)

    At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar. (AV)


    I wonder if archaeological research lead to this change

    Rob

    note: The word is supposed to be of Persian origin, connected with Parwar, meaning "possessing light," and hence, the meaning has been suggested of "colonnade" or "portico," some place open to the light. In the plural form (2 Kings 23:11) the situation of the house of "Nathan-melech" is described, and the translation, "in the colonnades," should, if the above origin is accepted, be more correct than English Versions of the Bible. It is difficult to understand the occurrence of a Persian word at this time, and it has been suggested (EB, col 3585) that the word is a description of the office of Nathan-melech, ba-parwarim being a misreading for ba-peradhim, meaning "who was over the mules."

    International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - Parbar

     
  16. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    1,337
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Wonder where they got that from?

    Rob
     
  17. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    464
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Josh. 15:13 Kiriath-arba (Geneva) the city of Arba (KJV) Kiriath Arba (NKJV)


    Josh. 21:11 Kiriath-arba (Geneva) the city of Arba (KJV) Kiriath Arba (NKJV)
     
  18. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    1,337
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Biblical noun קריה (qiryah) means city - the verb קרה (qara), to meet or get together

    Rob
     
Loading...