US Destiny?

[windcatcher]

The US, a 'Christian' Nation

"One Nation Under God"

(1) But we HAVE (or have we?) become a nation of lawlessness? We have more prisoners in jail than any other nation: I hear a report that over 1 of every hundred has been convicted of a crime.

(2) In the end times, the anti-christ is spoken of in the Bible as 'the lawless one'. The people give him power......or is this correct understanding?

(3) Would (or could) a democracy be the type of government that promotes him to power?

(4) Is it by approval and election by a people who are 'lawless' themselves that bring him to power?

(5) Generally, when we think of 'lawlessness' we think of people stealing, lying under oath, murder, rape, cheating on taxes, doing drugs, speeding......and the like. But the Bible speaks of 'lawlessness'. What does this mean?

('m nterested in hearing any discussion on any or all points of this OP.)

 

[Thinkingstuff]

The US, a 'Christian' Nation

"One Nation Under God"

(1) But we HAVE (or have we?) become a nation of lawlessness? We have more prisoners in jail than any other nation: I hear a report that over 1 of every hundred has been convicted of a crime.

(2) In the end times, the anti-christ is spoken of in the Bible as 'the lawless one'. The people give him power......or is this correct understanding?

(3) Would (or could) a democracy be the type of government that promotes him to power?

(4) Is it by approval and election by a people who are 'lawless' themselves that bring him to power?

(5) Generally, when we think of 'lawlessness' we think of people stealing, lying under oath, murder, rape, cheating on taxes, doing drugs, speeding......and the like. But the Bible speaks of 'lawlessness'. What does this mean?

('m nterested in hearing any discussion on any or all points of this OP.)

I thought US Destiney was accomplished when the West Coast States joined the Union. Or is there another Destiny apart from Manifest Destiny?:laugh:

Many of the founding US Fathers were christian and the US has supported christ kingdom on earth (Sometimes purposely when intrest coincided and sometimes unintentionally). However, I believe the US to be a primarily secular nation. Democracy wasn't a biblical consept but Greek. Rome was also a republiPc for a time. Though I believe a people are responsible for the actions both individually and corporately. The next section I want to make clear I am Not a SOCIALIST or COMMUNIST. I BELIEVE IN LIBERTY! However, many of the above sins are born out of our Capatalistic outlook. Even Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations indicates a problem when two or more business leaders are in discussion that they are not working to the good of the community but against it. So in our society money is God! Wealth leads to bounty which leads to lavisiousness. Our elected representatives coat their pockets with the funds obtained by business leaders who's business are treated favorably rather than fairly. The mantra of business graduates is that the responsibility a business has is soley to the shareholders who in turn could care less about employees but a gain in share value. CEO's primarily concerned with themselves jump from company to company each time being payed more in salary and stock options more than the value they bring to the company. If unsuccessful and are caught they've negotiated golden parachutes and the people suffer. Employees are laid off so that business can make their quarter. People want to maintain their great live styles and murder, sell themselves into protestution, ect... Commercials sell sex. Drugs are made to look harmless. But all these are sysmptoms of selfish, money hungry people. On the other hand the United States is a better country than any I have visited and that is quite a few.

 

[windcatcher]

So you are agreeing our nation is secular and 'lawless' and its a result of 'capitalism'? Do you feel it fits or doesn't fit with the use of 'lawlessness' in the Bible? If so........ what can we do to correct it?

 

[Crabtownboy]

So you are agreeing our nation is secular and 'lawless' and its a result of 'capitalism'? Do you feel it fits or doesn't fit with the use of 'lawlessness' in the Bible? If so........ what can we do to correct it?

If you look carefully at our history you will see this country has always been quite violent and lawless. For starters ask the Native Americans and African Americans. :wavey:

 

[Thinkingstuff]

So you are agreeing our nation is secular and 'lawless' and its a result of 'capitalism'? Do you feel it fits or doesn't fit with the use of 'lawlessness' in the Bible? If so........ what can we do to correct it?

Captialism with out controls of conscience or ethics does lead to lawlessness. The United States has been lawless from the begining and it was kind of the point. However, society had to rely on people's ethics and values which were for the most part commonly held. It is no longer the case. To be quite honest to fix the nation we need to share common morality and determination. That will not happen unless the Lord has mercy. I think we'll have to see it played out.

 

[windcatcher]

Yesterday (June 13, 2008) I was listening to an interesting radio program on the internet: the address as follows

www.radioliberty.com

or

www.soundwaves2000.com/radio_liberty/

Dr. Stan Montieth was interviewing Michael A. Peroutka who is associated with the following site on the constitution:

www.iotconline.com

Notes I took on program express the clearest and briefest understanding of our country and its founding as any I've ever heard.
-------------------
In brief:

Three principals upon which our country was founded:
1) There is a God
2) Our rights come from him
3) The purpose of government is to preserve those rights

There are 5 levels of government which he likens to a room consisting of 4 walls and a ceiling. These level are as follow:

The four walls;
1) self government
2) family government
3) church government
4) civil government
Conflict results when one form of government oversteps its boundaries into the domain of another.

He gives the example: I am your neighbor and between us there is a boundary or a fence. I look over into your yard and see your grass is higher than I allow mine to grow: Your flowers are unkempt clearly showing neglect: Your use of mulch is not effective in my estimation. Because I presume I have superior knowledge and better skills, I enter your yard and proceed to trim and weed and fashion your yard to match the 'higher standard' I presume is superior to yours. Whether or not it is an improvement is immaterial to the fact that my very act of intrusion was a trepass to your property and rights of domain, and uninvited.

Another problem he sees is where one area of 'government' neglects its responsibility, or prefers to delegate its own responsibility for care, to another to which it does not belong, which sets up precedent for present and future conflicts.

The (5th) level he views is likened to the ceiling which ties the four walls together to make the room. The ceiling reminds us that God is supreme and over all and the other 4 forms of government derive their powers from him and answer to him for the way they manage their area of responsibility.

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[DHK]

The U.S. at no time in its history was ever a "Christian" nation. There is no such thing in our day and age. We have no theocracy, and will not have until Christ comes and sets up His Kingdom on earth.

America may be based on a Judeo-Christian ethic in its principles. It had a Christian foundation. But it never was a Christian nation. In fact many of the Christians that first came over here were persecuted by other sects of so-called Christians. Much of America's early history has a sordid past which is easily overlooked, just as the Catholics easlily overlook their own Inquistion.

 

[Samuel Owen]

"One nation under God" is a misperceive idea. As that will not happen, until the Everlasting Kingdom is set up.

 

[JustChristian]

So you are agreeing our nation is secular and 'lawless' and its a result of 'capitalism'? Do you feel it fits or doesn't fit with the use of 'lawlessness' in the Bible? If so........ what can we do to correct it?

A huge majority of Americans call themselves "christians." Most of them are not really believers but "cultural christians." Personally, I believe that nations change when people change. Electing this or that person is not the primary concern. Born again Christians need to go back to living the Christian life. We need to love our neighbors even our enemies. Right now I'll bet that most of the world thinks that American christians are a power hungry sect whose primary aim is to conquer the world not to feed the poor and take care of the homeless. When we begin to truely follow Jesus' teachings everything else will take care of itself.

 

[billwald]

"Under God" violates the commandment about invoking God's name to support a lie.

 

[donnA]

The U.S. at no time in its history was ever a "Christian" nation. There is no such thing in our day and age. We have no theocracy, and will not have until Christ comes and sets up His Kingdom on earth.

America may be based on a Judeo-Christian ethic in its principles. It had a Christian foundation. But it never was a Christian nation. In fact many of the Christians that first came over here were persecuted by other sects of so-called Christians. Much of America's early history has a sordid past which is easily overlooked, just as the Catholics easlily overlook their own Inquistion.

One of the few times ever I agree with DHK

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Lot of Politicans, employees, U.S. Presidents are Masons. And even, many of them are also Jesuits. America was founded by Illuminati Movement. This country is not a truly 'Christian' nation. But, thank God, that more people receive gospel from America than any nations. Because, this country is freedom to speak. But, I believe, one day soon, this country will become communism or dictaror. This nation will stop us from spreading the true gospel. More enemies will attack against true Christians. I believe the persecutions are arising increase over our country soon, as our freedom is running out soon. Because the true revivals are fading away already. We are forgetting God. And the wicked within our country is increasing. So, this nation is not a truly 'Christian' at all today. Persecutions will hit Christians and churches hard one day soon. Because of as what the Bible prophecy saying so in the last days prior Christ's coming.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[windcatcher]

Lot of Politicans, employees, U.S. Presidents are Masons. And even, many of them are also Jesuits. America was founded by Illuminati Movement. This country is not a truly 'Christian' nation. But, thank God, that more people receive gospel from America than any nations. Because, this country is freedom to speak. But, I believe, one day soon, this country will become communism or dictaror. This nation will stop us from spreading the true gospel. More enemies will attack against true Christians. I believe the persecutions are arising increase over our country soon, as our freedom is running out soon. Because the true revivals are fading away already. We are forgetting God. And the wicked within our country is increasing. So, this nation is not a truly 'Christian' at all today. Persecutions will hit Christians and churches hard one day soon. Because of as what the Bible prophecy saying so in the last days prior Christ's coming.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

This I most heartedly concur!!!!

We have "In God we trust" on our money and in our allegiance "one nation under God" and, as Christian's, many of us are reminded by such symbollic language of 'our God' and it appeals to our assumption: There is historical evidence that acknowledgement of diety was introduced by "Christian" persons, advocating some recognition on our coinage and in our allegiance as an acknowledgement of God and his supreme authority and providence and our benefactor in our dependance.

But, really, we don't know 'whose god' is meant by those who utilized and incorporated such symbollic language into our coinage and pledge at such crucial times in our history where our weariness of war or uncertainty of stability and economy became a distraction to our watchfullness and became accepted as the symbollic panacea for our spiritual discomfort and poverty.

Just like the muslim god is not the God of true Christians, neither does the invocation of "God" mean the same in the symbollic use by Free Masonry, OES, and other similar 'secret societies' as it does to the true believing Christians.

Those who join these organization are expected to take oaths without question which are blood oaths..... (which have possibly been altered in more recent times as this criticism is now commonly known and acknowledged as an offense to/by some). Perhaps more to come on this in a later post.

But, for now: I would like to propose that the United States of America and its governance under the constitution of the United States of America..... is the closest we Christians could probably come to a theocracy without the physical presence of our Lord. For a while God did bless our founding, and worked through many deeply devout men who persuaded even those of less devotion to Jesus Christ or belief in God, to value the rule of law based upon acceptance of absolutes regarding law and moraliiy, that freedom was a gift from God and not government.... but it was encumbant upon individual exercise of lawful freedom and internalized self-restraint (as that which is driven by a firm and basic conviction that nothing whatsoever escapes God's knowledge nor his judgement). We are loosing our freedom and the sovereignty of our country.....or so it seems to me, and I am not entirely persuaded that the ground upon which we stood once upon a time is ground that others took from us....... or more likely ground which we failed to dig in and defend regarding our faith AND our country.:tear:

 

[BobRyan]

This nation is blessed by God for holding to the principles of Protestantism and religious liberty.

"IN God we trust" is not a violation of that liberty -- it deprives no one of their right to worship the one true God of the Bible.

But this is also nothing like a theocracy where God Himself is President.

He is not the Law maker for this country -- our congress is -- and stupid rulings like the ones we see in California regarding gay marriage are certainly possible in our national "back sliding".

However our Christian nation began by creating a law for Christian pastors to open every session of congress in prayer to the one true God.

We need to repent of the sins of the nation so that God can continue to bless us.

in Christ,

Bob