What are they ? Do you think your church does a good job at avoiding them ?
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Vain repetitions.
- Thread starter Bro. Curtis
- Start date
Churches may do a very good job at avoiding those oft repeated issues. They never get to grips with them because they are too sensitive. But those issues won't stop cropping up again and again because God may not want them to stop.
What is needed isn't more and more clever ways to side-step these issues; but the courage of a BETTER conviction to CONFRONT them and eventually get rid of them with , OR, to SURRENDER one's TAKEN FOR GRANTED fossilized own ideas.
...which will NEVER happen of course...
What is needed isn't more and more clever ways to side-step these issues; but the courage of a BETTER conviction to CONFRONT them and eventually get rid of them with , OR, to SURRENDER one's TAKEN FOR GRANTED fossilized own ideas.
...which will NEVER happen of course...
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PreachTony
Active Member
I've always taken vain repetitions to mean some sort of formalized prayer, chant, or incantation that does nothing more than repeat a phrase or term, maybe making some minute changes to the phrasing, all while acting as though it is some great communicator to God.
Consider Jesus's parable about the two men praying. The Pharisee was boastful and repetitious in his prayer while the man who went away justified was humble, and begged only for God's mercy. The public prayers of some religious leaders fall squarely into the "vain repetitions" category.
Consider Jesus's parable about the two men praying. The Pharisee was boastful and repetitious in his prayer while the man who went away justified was humble, and begged only for God's mercy. The public prayers of some religious leaders fall squarely into the "vain repetitions" category.
That's my take, too. Any kind of memorized repetitive prayer.
I believe the example you gave, Jesus actually ends it with (paraphrase), "Your Father knows your needs before you ask.
I believe the example you gave, Jesus actually ends it with (paraphrase), "Your Father knows your needs before you ask.
A lot of things can be vain repetitions, if we let them, though they aren't necessarily on their own. It seems to be a matter of the heart. Here are just a few that could be --
Lord's Prayer
Apostle's Creed
Doxology
Even singing "Just as I am" or "Victory in Jesus" could be if you're only using your mouth, not your heart.
You nailed it! That hymns are prayers. Is it "vain" to sing "Amazing Grace" or "The Old Rugged Cross" more than once? I recently attended a local church service where the song: 'Our God Is An Awesome God' was song over and over and over. Pretty repititious! What is key here is the word 'vain'. Repetition isn't being condemned but 'vain repetition' is. We know the angels pray repetitiously. Revelation 4:8: "...and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come."
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Would be thinking that one is right with God by using those things, and not saved by the cross yet!
Vain repeatations are just saying things to say them or be heard.
One realizes the power and good of liturgy once you are deprived of it.
The Reformers required of the laity that everyone must know the Lord's Prayer by heart. There were a few other things as well I have forgotten. But all in all it was very little the folks had to be able to REPEAT from memory.
It was the best thing ever!
I wonder how many confessors can nowadays recite the Lord's Prayer? Do any know some verses by heart? Or am I completely out of touch with reality?
The Reformers required of the laity that everyone must know the Lord's Prayer by heart. There were a few other things as well I have forgotten. But all in all it was very little the folks had to be able to REPEAT from memory.
It was the best thing ever!
I wonder how many confessors can nowadays recite the Lord's Prayer? Do any know some verses by heart? Or am I completely out of touch with reality?
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PreachTony
Active Member
NOTE: I removed the SIZE tag from Gerhard's quote...
That's my two cents.
What good is memorizing a prayer? Memorizing prayers or scriptures do not gain anyone a single ounce of holiness. I've been in the ministry for 14 years now and I don't have the Lord's Prayer memorized, mainly because the Lord has never impressed on me to memorize it. That was Jesus's prayer, and He instructed people to pray "after this manner." To me, that means we should seek to pray with the humility and self-abasement that Jesus showed. It doesn't mean we should repeat the prayer word for word.
Pretty sure that Jesus was the best ever. :smilewinkgrin:
The ability to quote scripture does not equate to holiness or godliness. Pray the prayer that seems right to you. Speak to God in reverence and humility, but speak to Him as yourself, and not using the words of someone else.
That's my two cents.
AMEN, AMEN, and AMEN!!! :jesus:
Show me a good piece of music that not mostly consists of variations on the same theme and or the same bars just like that REPEATED unlimitedly. Show me a greater master than Mozart and I’ll show you Mozart the greater master and greatest repeater.
The rhythm of LIFE is repetition. Prayer which is not repetition scarcely can be prayer. Every night of my life I lay my head down on my pillow I say THE SAME WORDS FROM THE SAME HEART WITH THE SAME MIND IN THE SAME BODY.
Prayer is rhythm because prayer is spontaneous ---like the beat of one’s heart, like the exercise of one’s muscles; like the cleansing of the sieve of one’s memory and mind with the clear and clean waters of a waterfall.
The best of diets is the simplest of diets which is the same food over and over every day of one’s life. It’s like the “water of life” springing up from the only source the “ROCK OF AGES”.
The GIST OF LIFE is repetition. The ESSENCE of prayer cannot but be that which is REPEATED in prayer and MUST be repeated in PRAYER.
What a dull spiritual life without regularity and repetition.
Of course…. UNNECESSARY TO SAY, please not the kind of repetition one is forced to STRUGGLE through when every second or third word a person prays, is the Name of the Lord. If one prayed such a prayer to himself and not in the Congregation though, who can judge that man who so prays? No, if he pray by himself no one can say of a person that he uses repetition even of the Lord’s Name, too often.
The believer DELIGHTS IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.
The rhythm of LIFE is repetition. Prayer which is not repetition scarcely can be prayer. Every night of my life I lay my head down on my pillow I say THE SAME WORDS FROM THE SAME HEART WITH THE SAME MIND IN THE SAME BODY.
Prayer is rhythm because prayer is spontaneous ---like the beat of one’s heart, like the exercise of one’s muscles; like the cleansing of the sieve of one’s memory and mind with the clear and clean waters of a waterfall.
The best of diets is the simplest of diets which is the same food over and over every day of one’s life. It’s like the “water of life” springing up from the only source the “ROCK OF AGES”.
The GIST OF LIFE is repetition. The ESSENCE of prayer cannot but be that which is REPEATED in prayer and MUST be repeated in PRAYER.
What a dull spiritual life without regularity and repetition.
Of course…. UNNECESSARY TO SAY, please not the kind of repetition one is forced to STRUGGLE through when every second or third word a person prays, is the Name of the Lord. If one prayed such a prayer to himself and not in the Congregation though, who can judge that man who so prays? No, if he pray by himself no one can say of a person that he uses repetition even of the Lord’s Name, too often.
The believer DELIGHTS IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.
PreachTony
Active Member
The key is "VAIN" repetitions. That vanity comes from our intent, not necessarily from the words. A sincere Catholic may earnestly recite the Rosary several times. I don't know that I can necessarily call that "vain," as I cannot read the Catholic's heart.
What I can do, is monitor my own words and intentions. I can keep myself from saying things in vain. I can earnestly seek after God and, if that leads to praying the same prayer, it won't be in vain.
<<<The key is "VAIN" repetitions.>>>
That's it!
And vain the 'rosary' repeated as vain as the charismatics' refrain UNTIL THEY CATCH THE SPIRIT AND CACOPHONY BREAKS LOOSE. That is "vain repetition" as ever there can be. I do not let anyone tell me God loves that sort of idolatry or is honoured or glorified thereby. It's plain blasphemy LOUD and NOISY.