Vulgarity

[Maverick]

Who determines what is vulgar and what is not? Since none of the words we consider vulgar are in the Bible (least not the KJV, the Living Bible has one I remember) who determines that a word is vulgar and not to be used by a Christian? Indeed, piss is in the KJV as acceptable, but today it is considered vulgar in some circles. Before the f word was created did God in His foreknowledge deem it vulgar and thus it is sin? If we traveled to a nation where they have a primitive tribe and found they used the word in polite company would it then still be vulgar? What if manure or excrement was considered vulgar but the four letter one we shun was acceptable?

I have been having quite a discussion about this with a coworker who sees no harm in these words. Nothing I have said has convinced him.

Who dictates this and since society has accepted most of these are fine in public can a Christian fault a non-believer for using them or a Christian since we do not have a dictionary of English words that God is displeased with?

 

[Helen]

Well, my years with teenagers and their questions is paying off!

There are two kinds of vulgarity: sacriligious and cultural. In English, the cultural time usually relates to "Anglo-Saxon" words and their heritage which, at one time, were considered low class. From that status some sunk and some raised to respectability!

The sacriligious ones are, sadly, less offensive to most people, as they generally involve words found in the Bible but used in a blasphemous, or simply inappropriate, way.

The standard rule in polite society is simply to not say that which is offensive.

That being said, being married to an Aussie has had its funny -- and embarrassing -- moments.

Before we were married, we were talking on the phone, trans-Pacific. Summer here, winter there. He asked me to hold for a moment as he was chilly and was going to go put on his jumper.

Say what??? A jumper?? A DRESS?

Was I marrying a cross-dresser?

A jumper is a sweater....

About a year ago, sitting here in our kitchen here in California, a friend brought over her newborn baby (about 2 weeks old) to show us. I was totally eager to hold the little one and loved feeling something so tiny in my arms again. Barry had a bit of a cold and so kept his distance. As the mother and baby were about to leave, Barry made apologies for not being able to nurse the baby, but he had a cold.

Nurse the baby??? He is NOT equipped!

"Nurse" in Australia is the same as 'cuddle' here. What we refer to as nursing is breast-feeding there.

Those were funny, but I did really offend some wonderful friends over there one time when we were talking about our kids and I mentioned how my oldest, when he was two, learned that if he cried hard enough at bedtime I would have to get him up because he would give himself a bloody nose.

"Bloody" is a swear word to them. That's because it was associated with Christ's wounds.

There was a rather shocked silence and then I was gently corrected. I was very embarrassed and apologized profusely. He would give himself nose-bleeds.

There's a combination of sacriligious and cultural...

Good luck!

Which is not a good thing to say either, because 'good' comes from 'God', and there is no luck with God!

oh well....

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Who dictates this and since society has accepted most of these are fine in public can a Christian fault a non-believer for using them or a Christian since we do not have a dictionary of English words that God is displeased with?

I don't think anyone has to dictate them. Even a non-believer knows what is acceptable to a Christian and what is not.

I have worked around many non-believers and once they found out that I was a Christian and I not only 'talked the talk, but walked the walk', the dirty language stopped when I came into the room; as well as the dirty jokes. If someone slipped, they apologized immediately.

What really bothers me is that people who use this language don't even realize it most of the time, it has become just words to them and their children hear it at home all the time and repeat it, not knowing what it means.

I remember when I had taken my son to the barber shop one time and a man was there, waiting his turn, who was using God's name in vain.

I looked at him and said, "I didn't know you were a Christian". He said, "I'm not". I said, "Oh, I thought you were because you were just talking to "MY GOD".

There was stunned silence for a few seconds and then a few snickers from some of the other patrons; but that man never used God's name in vain in my presence again.

Blessings,
Sue

 

[Abiyah]

To me, it really does not matter where the words
which are considered impolite today came from.
We live in a society where they are considered
improper (vulgar, common, gutter language, etc.),
so they should not be used.

My anthropology prof very sanctimoniously
informed my class (which was mostly freshmen,
so he thought he had a real platform) that the
four-letter words disdained by society came
from the Anglo-Saxon, but most of us were not
necessarily impressed by his lecture that day.
Big whoop. Most of us know what is acceptable
and what is not, so his lame attempt at influencing
us (and it appeared that he was trying to get us to
use the words!) fell to the floor.

What I would go by is a good current dictionary --
an unabridged dictionary which gives details. Use
it to look up your word to see its origin, what it
substitutes for, what it meant originally, and what
it means today. This should clean up most
persons' language. The only truly clean slang
word I can think of is shucks. 8o)

At the same time, I have heard people taking this
pretty far to the extreme, and I have also heard of
people using it to attempt to be the ultimate
conscience for others. I think we should allow
others use their own consciences to judge
themselves, except in the case Sue brought up --
when such language is offensive to a child's ears.

For myself, I may differ from my friend Sue. While
most people will not use gutter language or tell
dirty jokes in my presence, I find that many
Christians throw the word god around very
thoughtlessly -- even more so than those who do
not profess to know our God. When a believer
does this, I find it offensive only because they
use that same word in prayer. How can this be?

When a non-believer does it, I consider that they
have many gods, so what does it matter? My God
has a Name, and to me, that Name is not God but
a real Name that I pray they never use in the same
manner as they use "god."

But I understand what you are saying, Sue, and I
understand your intentions. 8o)

 

[Mike McK]

It's all about perception.

I used the word "bitch", which isn't considered profanity in the context in which I used it and was told by one of the less literate among us that it was profanity.

The word "ass" is another one.

You can say ass to mean a donkey or mule and that's fine, but if you say someone's behaving like an ass, that's profane.

It basically just depends on whatever mood the hearer is in when you say it.

[ March 19, 2003, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Mike McK ]

 

[Abiyah]

Mike, you reminded me of a pastor I oncce knew
who was a very godly and careful man. In all the
years I knew him, I think he only preached a
couple "hell fire and brimstone" messages, but
in one he found himself in a linguistic corner.
I do not remember the complete gist of the sermon
or the sentence he was trying to complete, but he
preached:

"Who in H -- Who in H -- Who in H -- Who in a
lost eternity . . . . "

And by that time, he had lost his congregation in
muffled snickers as he worked so hard not to say
a phrase that sounded, to him, like swearing and
found a solution in a well-sanitized phrase.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Abiyah

I will never forget the Sunday my Pastor was preaching very earnestly. He meant to say "fruit of the womb" and, instead, he said, "Fruit of the Loom".

Sue

 

[Thankful]

When my son was about 10 years old, one of his friends said a vulgar word in my presence, He hushed his friend and said, "My mother doesn't know those words."

Wasn't that sweet of him?

He didn't even know that I had heard the word.

 

[Abiyah]

My daughter and I were horsing around in the car
one time. I was creating a song as I was singing
it -- loudly -- and in order to rhyme one phrase,
I sang something that was not true. My daughter
tried to tell me it wasn't so, but I sang louder and
wouldn't let her get a word in. Finally, she
shouted, "Go to H--!"

I was shocked, she was stunned, and she finally
spit out that she had been trying to tell me that if I
told a lie, I would go to H--, but all that came out
was "Go to H--!"

 

[SaggyWoman]

Alot, too, depends on the aging of the words.

Gay used to mean happy.

Suck used to not mean "that is bad".

Some words that I grew up with, and I am a Young One, are now okay.

 

[Maverick]

I appreciate y'alls help, but so far there is nothing that I have not already told him and he is still not convinced that God cares about words that man has declared to be vulgar. Not sure what it would take, but thanks for trying.

 

[Harald]

As for persons who profess to know God and Christ they are duty bound to imitate Christ and Paul in their conversation, including their use of words. If what they speak go beyond the calibre of words and expressions used by these their speech is something else than godly, perhaps vulgar or profane. In an instance Paul used a word which the KJV renders as "dung", and his speech was godly. The literal meaning of the Greek word underlying speaks of something which is thrown to the dogs, like leftovers. When the Biblical authors wanted to refer to the intimate act of sexual intercourse between man and woman they used the word "know". This should give some indication of what is within the range of being acceptable language and what is not. The same authors talked about fornication, used the word whoremonger, the word "harlot" (whore) etc. That was godly on their part and not vulgar. People today may use the same words but only the circumstance or context dictates whether it is used godly or vulgarly.

It is sad and deplorable when people who claim to know God go about using vulgar and profane words on a continual basis. It is alarming. The same goes for jesting and joking on a permanent basis. I have encountered much joking and jesting on this board, even joking about serious things such as God and Christ etc. Sometimes it nearly sickens me. It is nothing but a manifestation of a carnal mind and heart, and a love for the world and the things of it. It ought not to be so.

Harald

 

[KenH]

After I started going to dog shows and performance trials I had to get used to the word "bitch" as an acceptable world as that is what female dogs are referred to.

I still find it a hard word to say even in its proper context. I have noticed in watching dog shows on TV that when Crufts is shown from England the English announcers use the word quite commonly.

 

[Maverick]

Again, the question is who makes the determination that a word is vulgar? Does God declare the word vulgar before or after man declares it such? I have no problem in this area, but lost folks and my coworker do. They see no problem in the words we would deem vulgar. My coworker is Black so it may be a bit of a cultural thing as well.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Harald:
In an instance Paul used a word which the KJV renders as "dung", and his speech was godly. The literal meaning of the Greek word underlying speaks of something which is thrown to the dogs, like leftovers.

No, Paul and Jesus both used the word (Jesus used it twice) and in both cases, it meant dung.

When the Biblical authors wanted to refer to the intimate act of sexual intercourse between man and woman they used the word "know". This should give some indication of what is within the range of being acceptable language and what is not.

They also said, "He lay with her", which is where we get the expression, "to get laid". Why is one considered profane and the other not?

It is nothing but a manifestation of a carnal mind and heart, and a love for the world and the things of it. It ought not to be so.

So, when Jesus used humor in His teaching, it was a manifestation of a carnal mind and heart?

 

[Harald]

Harald had said:

"The same goes for jesting and joking on a permanent basis. I have encountered much joking and jesting on this board, even joking about serious things such as God and Christ etc."

Mike McK said:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is nothing but a manifestation of a carnal mind and heart, and a love for the world and the things of it. It ought not to be so.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, when Jesus used humor in His teaching, it was a manifestation of a carnal mind and heart?


END OF QUOTE


Mike. If Jesus used humor in His teaching I cannot recall right now. But if He did, take a look at what I said, carefully. Did you notice the words "on a permanent basis"? Don't come implying I am maligning the Lord of Glory.

Harald

 

[Harald]

Mike. As for the word I referred to which Paul used. What I had in mind was Phil. 3:8. It is skubalon, Strong's number 4657. Strong's Greek dictionary has "what is thrown to the dogs" as one lexical meaning. It also gives "dung" and "refuse". Thayer's definition in e-Sword is

Thayer Definition:
1) any refuse, as the excrement of animals, offscourings, rubbish, dregs
1a) of things worthless and detestable

I won't take issue with the KJV here, "dung" is a good and correct rendering. And Paul used it godlily.

Harald

 

[Mike McK]

take a look at what I said, carefully. Did you notice the words "on a permanent basis"?

I don't know wha you mean by that.

Don't come implying I am maligning the Lord of Glory.

I didn't imply anything. I just asked a simple question.

Thayer's definition in e-Sword is

Thayer Definition:
1) any refuse, as the excrement of animals, offscourings, rubbish, dregs
1a) of things worthless and detestable

Yes. Thayers is what I was referring to.

I won't take issue with the KJV here, "dung" is a good and correct rendering. And Paul used it godlily.

As I was saying...