Was 15 days jail time excessive?

[Salty]

But isnt it religious freedon?

If you were the judge, what would be your decision?

 

[Darron Steele]

There should be civil punishments or criminal punishments.

This is a safety hazard, not an issue of religious liberty.

The Amish are accommodated generously by being allowed to drive their horse-drawn buggies on highways -- which were designed for automobile traffic and highway speeds.

The Amish need to accommodate us by enabling us to be able to see them when speed differentials are dozens of miles per hour.

If they do not want to take these reasonable steps to do their part to help ensure the safety of the general public, they need to stay off those roads.

If they want to use the modern convenience of paved highways, bright-colored reflectors are not too much to ask. This is especially true given Romans 13, which tells us to obey civil authority.

If they want to endanger the safety of everyone on the roads because they do not want to obey reasonable safety laws, they can pay fines out the wazoo and/or go to jail.

 

[Salty]

There should be civil punishments or criminal punishments.

This would be civil - a criminal case would be DWI or something similar

This is a safety hazard, not an issue of religious 
liberty.

That is the paradox - it is a safety hazard,but to the Amish/Mennonites - it is also a religious issue as they believe it is umbilical to use bright colors.

The Amish are accommodated generously by being 
allowed to drive their horse-drawn buggies on highways -- 
which were designed for automobile traffic and highway 
speeds

.
Normally all traffic - horses, bikes, ect are permitted on highways except limited excess highways - AKA Interstates

The Amish need to accommodate us by enabling us 
to be able to see them when speed differentials are dozens 
of miles per hour.

So where does religious beliefs end begin and safety

If they do not want to take these reasonable steps 
to do their part to help ensure the safety of the general 
public, they need to stay off those roads.

But who determines what is reasonable?
Is it reasonable to make me wear a seat belt?

If they want to use the modern convenience of 
paved highways, bright-colored reflectors are not too 
much to ask. This is especially true given Romans 13,
which tells us to obey civil authority

. So if the
courts rule that a doctor MUST preform an abortion -
he should do it?

If they want to endanger the safety of everyone 
on the roads because they do not want to obey reasonable 
safety laws, they can pay fines out the wazoo and/or go to 
jail

.
Why not just designate some roads only for horses/buggies and cars would have to refrain form using at night - that would be a reasonable safety law, wouldn't it?

I suppose the law of reasonable is in the eye of the beholder - or is it the majority?

 

[Darron Steele]

SALTCITYBAPTIST:

I can only tell you what I think.

If you think religious liberty means that religious people ought to be able to endanger anyone not in their religion, then your view if enacted will create a dangerous state of anarchy.

This is not about the majority picking on the minority, as you insinuate.

Here are the facts: I live in an area where we are subject to encountering Amish traffic. It is a dangerous thing to smack into a horse-drawn carriage at 55 mph. Anyone on the buggy is likely to be dead -- and any survivors involved traumatized. The horse or horses: most likely dead, or soon euthanized. The driver and any passengers: injured or dead. People in nearby cars: injured or dead.

My fiancee is very near and dear to my heart. I do not want her hurt or killed because someone chose a religion, got on a public highway, and disregarded safety laws. I do not want to be crippled, or leave her bereaved. They have the right to choose their religion; we have the right to reject their religion and remain safe.

The Amish know they have no Bible verse(s) to point to for their positions. Their positions on modern conveniences are not biblical. They choose to remain aloof from modern conveniences to prevent tainting by `worldly enticements.' They are `barriers to the world.' Each Amish colony has different rules set the the opinions of the leaders. In my area, both Amish colonies use reflectors, and I have seen electric lanterns too.

The Amish of this particular colony want to use modern paved highways -- but they want to reject reasonable modern safety measures. They want to pick and choose -- to the peril of every person in a car. That is not fair. We have the right to not be endangered by their choice of religion.

I do not see how requiring the Amish to use reflectors to protect motorists is to be compared to murdering an unborn child. If you are that desperate to make that stretch, I suspect that your emotional attachment precludes discussing it reasonably.

 

[Tom Butler]

In my area of Western Kentucky, a similar story.

During the trial for Jacob Gingerich, Levi Zook and Emanuel Yoder, testimony and arguments boiled down to how to balance Kentucky's law requiring safety symbols on all buggies with religious beliefs that prohibit possessions that are too worldly.

This was in Mayfield, Kentucky. One interesting thing. One of the Amish men in the OP story was named Eli Yoder. Another was Joni Yoder. Look at the name of one of the men in the Mayfield story.

 

[Darron Steele]

By the way, the defendants had a choice of paying a $10 fine instead of going to jail.

They made their choice.

 

[Salty]

SALTCITYBAPTIST:

I can only tell you what I think.

If you think religious liberty means that religious people ought to be able to endanger anyone not in their religion, then your view if enacted will create a dangerous state of anarchy.

The bottom line is that religious beliefs may take a back seat to safety. I often bring this up in my Driving class.
It is akin to "Is yelling fire in a crowded theater, restricting your freedom of speech"

As far as not finding one verse... well ... even fundamental Christians are experts at that.

 

[donnA]

Here are the facts: I live in an area where we are subject to encountering Amish traffic. It is a dangerous thing to smack into a horse-drawn carriage at 55 mph. Anyone on the buggy is likely to be dead -- and any survivors involved traumatized. The horse or horses: most likely dead, or soon euthanized. The driver and any passengers: injured or dead. People in nearby cars: injured or dead

we have a lot of amish here also, and frequent amish deaths in buggies, because of speed.
Seems senseless to allow some to violate the law when others would be punished for the same violation. Don't know about anywhere else, but driving that much under the speed limit here will get you a ticket, unless your amish.