Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Did you read the list of names that Jesus gave the power to? How can you say Judas could not have? I am not refuting you here, I am just wondering where you get your evidence from.
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Was Judas saved?
- Thread starter Kay
- Start date
HP: Did you read the list of names that Jesus gave the power to? How can you say Judas could not have? I am not refuting you here, I am just wondering where you get your evidence from.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
StandingfirminChrist: Who says the people who commit the same sins daily are Christians? It must be the world, as the Word of God does not declare them to be Christians.
HP: Have you lived without sin today? This is not an accusation that you have not, I am just wondering.
Iamodd4God
New Member
standingfirminChrist said:Salvatiton is a free gift. It is given by God to man. The gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Salvation cannot be lost.
And here is the reason the OSAS proponents CANNOT admit that Judas was a true apostle of Christ, because they know that their belief about OSAS will crumble before their very eyes. If OSAS is true then Judas is in paradise, because once you become saved you cannot become unsaved, and as you will see Judas Iscariot was a true apostle of Christ.
Acts 1:16-26 is about the replacement of Judas Iscariot. Look closely at the following passages of Scripture and pay close attention to what they say about Judas Iscariot.
1) Judas Was A Bishop
Acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and HIS BISHOPRIC let another take.
Here Judas is clearly noted as was being a Bishop as this passage of Scripture is speaking of "HIS" position. The Bible is clear as to the qualifications a person must meet to be a Bishop.
1Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless,
Jesus sent the "TWELVE" disciples to preach, to heal, and to cast out demons...
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Why would Jesus go against the Word of God by sending out Judas Iscariot to perform duties he was not qualified to do? He wouldn't have and He didn't; at this time Judas was NOT the son of perdition; he was an apostle.
2) Judas Iscariot By Transgression Fell
Acts 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, FROM WHICH JUDAS BY TRANSGRESSION FELL, that he might go to his own place.
Here we clearly see that by transgression (sin) Judas Iscariot fell "FROM" his apostleship. How can a person fall from a position they never had? In this case how can Judas Iscariot fall from apostleship if he was never an apostle?
Is the following passage of Scripture for the saved or the unsaved?
1Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
In the name of Jesus Christ,
Ken
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Jesus said in John 17 that Judas is the son of perdition... not that he had become the son of perdition.
When He said in John 6 that one is a devil (Judas), He did not say Judas will become a devil.
Judas was not saved from the beginning. Jesus knew from the beginning who would betray Him.
A good tree will not bear evil fruit. Judas was not saved.
Get over it.
When He said in John 6 that one is a devil (Judas), He did not say Judas will become a devil.
Judas was not saved from the beginning. Jesus knew from the beginning who would betray Him.
A good tree will not bear evil fruit. Judas was not saved.
Get over it.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
StandingfirminChrist: A good tree will not bear evil fruit.
HP: Have you sinned and brought forth evil fruit since you have became saved? This again is not an accusation, I am just wondering.
Iamodd4God
New Member
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
HP: I believe I am in agreement with you here. There is no indication that Judas was always a devil or even that he was always a thief. We know what he became in the end, but that in no way proves he was that way at the beginning of his ministry.
Some on this list seem to believe they are able to discern his motives from the beginning. I am waiting to see their evidence.
Seeing that there are no Scripture supporting their claims I'm afraid you'll be waiting for something that will never come. Of course I am sure you know this though. :thumbs:
In the name of Jesus Christ,
Ken
Iamodd4God
New Member
standingfirminChrist said:Jesus said in John 17 that Judas is the son of perdition... not that he had become the son of perdition.
When He said in John 6 that one is a devil (Judas), He did not say Judas will become a devil.
Judas was not saved from the beginning. Jesus knew from the beginning who would betray Him.
A good tree will not bear evil fruit. Judas was not saved.
Get over it.
Jesus also said to Peter "Get thee behind me Satan" do you believe that Peter was Satan?
You make your claims with no Scriptural support. Clearly the Word of God points out that Judas Iscariot was an apostle Acts 1:16-26 but you deny this; who should we believe the Word of God or the word of StandingfirminChrist?
Yes Judas was the son of perdition, but can you prove that he was the son of perdition from the beginning?
In the name of Jesus Christ,
Ken
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Iamodd4God
New Member
standingfirminChrist said:Here, the twelve are sent out, and yes devils were cast out. I stand corrected on the disciples not casting out devils during Jesus' earthly ministry.
But, I do not believe Judas was one who did the casting out of devils. The one sent with Judas more than likely did the casting out of devils.
Judas, as one who was not truly saved, who served two masters, could not have cast out devils.
1) If Judas could not cast out devils then why did Jesus give him the power to do so?
2) The way you say you don't believe it was Judas casting out the devils, but the one who was with him I can say the opposite. Neither one of us can support our claims with Scripture. However, I must point out that 70 were sent out, and seventy came back rejoicing, which would include Judas...
Luke 10:17 And THE SEVENTY returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
They rejoiced at how the devils were subject to them, and I also must point out this also shows that Judas did refer to Christ as "Lord" something you denied in another post.
In the name of Jesus Christ,
Ken
So far I see that Judas is said to be a devil from the beginning. But this verse shows the devil entered into him at the last supper? Why did it happen then if he was a devil from the beginning?
Luke 22:1-6 (KJV)
1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
5 And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.
6 And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.
Luke 22:1-6 (KJV)
1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
5 And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.
6 And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.
Iamodd4God
New Member
standingfirminChrist said:These were the 70, not the 12. The 12 stayed with Jesus.
Notice verse 1 of Luke chapter 10:
The other seventy were sent out, not the original twelve.
The only problem I have with that is how the variations of the Scripture differs from one another. For example:
Matthew 27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.
Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
Luke 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
This is CLEAR contradiction, and we are left with a question mark. Which gospel is right? Did the one thief rebuke the other as recorded in Luke or did he join in and insult Jesus as recorded in Matthew?
Well, the same thing happens here I think...
Notice how similar Luke 10:1-12 is to Mark 6:7-13 to Matthew 10:5-16. These are all too similar, so are they all different events or are they all the same event just recorded differently.
Though the seventy may have not been the twelve, does that mean the twelve were not also sent?
In the name of Jesus Christ,
Ken
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Iamodd4God said:Jesus also said to Peter "Get thee behind me Satan" do you believe that Peter was Satan?
You make your claims with no Scriptural support. Clearly the Word of God points out that Judas Iscariot was an apostle Acts 1:16-26 but you deny this; who should we believe the Word of God or the word of StandingfirminChrist?
Yes Judas was the son of perdition, but can you prove that he was the son of perdition from the beginning?
In the name of Jesus Christ,
Ken
When Jesus called Peter satan, He was not saying Peter was the devil or even a devil. He was saying what Peter said was opposing Him.
Jesus clearly said Judas Iscariot was a devil though.
Try again.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Kay: So far I see that Judas is said to be a devil from the beginning
HP: So far we must have just been given the opinions of those that what to throw Judas under the bus from the beginning. You don’t suppose they might have a reason for this do you?
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Iamodd4God said:1) If Judas could not cast out devils then why did Jesus give him the power to do so?
2) The way you say you don't believe it was Judas casting out the devils, but the one who was with him I can say the opposite. Neither one of us can support our claims with Scripture. However, I must point out that 70 were sent out, and seventy came back rejoicing, which would include Judas...
Luke 10:17 And THE SEVENTY returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
They rejoiced at how the devils were subject to them, and I also must point out this also shows that Judas did refer to Christ as "Lord" something you denied in another post.
In the name of Jesus Christ,
Ken
Judas was not one of the 70 in Luke 10:17. You need to go back and study.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
What I would like to know, is why the double standard? The accusations against Judas are for sin, yet we are told on a daily basis by many on the list that sin cannot be avoided in your life, and ones actions have no bearing on receiving or keeping ones salvation, and that we all sin. As I see it, Judas could one just have well been a member in good standing in many churches. It’s all under the blood before he ever committed them, right?
Now if we start judging Judas for his behavior, where does that leave the rest of us? Are there any on the list that in reaity can cast the first stone? Help us Lord.
No I don't see that HP. The bible does say Judas was a devil but my question is.
So far I see that Judas is said to be a devil from the beginning. But this verse shows the devil entered into him at the last supper? Why did it happen then if he was a devil from the beginning?
Luke 22:1-6 (KJV)
1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
5 And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.
6 And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.
So far I see that Judas is said to be a devil from the beginning. But this verse shows the devil entered into him at the last supper? Why did it happen then if he was a devil from the beginning?
Luke 22:1-6 (KJV)
1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
5 And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.
6 And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Kay, Jesus said Judas was a devil way before it was said the devil entered into him.
Apparently, the human body can house more than one devil.
Apparently, the human body can house more than one devil.
Iamodd4God
New Member
standingfirminChrist said:Judas was not one of the 70 in Luke 10:17. You need to go back and study.
Read my other post.
The only problem I have with that is how the variations of the Scripture differs from one another. For example:
Matthew 27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.
Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
Luke 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
This is CLEAR contradiction, and we are left with a question mark. Which gospel is right? Did the one thief rebuke the other as recorded in Luke or did he join in and insult Jesus as recorded in Matthew?
Well, the same thing happens here I think...
Notice how similar Luke 10:1-12 is to Mark 6:7-13 to Matthew 10:5-16. These are all too similar, so are they all different events or are they all the same event just recorded differently.
Though the seventy may have not been the twelve, does that mean the twelve were not also sent?
In the name of Jesus Christ,
Ken
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standingfirminChrist
New Member
There is no contradiction. Both thieves railed on Jesus to begin with. But then one saw that Jesus was being crucified for crimes He had not done and He felt sorrow for Jesus.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Neither is Luke 10 contradicting with Mark 6.
In Luke 10, it is the 70 other disciples that are being sent out, not the twelve.
In Mark 6, it is the twelve sent out.
These are two separate events.
There is no contradiction in the Word of God.
In Luke 10, it is the 70 other disciples that are being sent out, not the twelve.
In Mark 6, it is the twelve sent out.
These are two separate events.
There is no contradiction in the Word of God.
Iamodd4God
New Member
standingfirminChrist said:Neither is Luke 10 contradicting with Mark 6.
In Luke 10, it is the 70 other disciples that are being sent out, not the twelve.
In Mark 6, it is the twelve sent out.
These are two separate events.
There is no contradiction in the Word of God.
1) Can you prove that the twelve were not sent? The Scripture doesn't say they were or weren't so by what proof are you drawing your conclusion from?
2) You say there is no contradiction in the Word of God. Then explain this...
Matthew 27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.
Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
Luke 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Yes, I agree that the TRUE WORD OF GOD does not contradict itself, but nobady can deny that the above is a contradiction. Can you?
In the name of Jesus Christ,
Ken