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Was Judas saved?
- Thread starter Kay
- Start date
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Truth be known, all fall short of the glory of God according to Paul's writings. That is why we must depend on Christ and His blood to carry us through. It is He who will confirm us to the end and present us blameless.steaver said:This is rich! I asked you over and over what the "majical level" of good works is that gets you into the Kingdom and you won't ever specify.
God Bless!
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:5)
Our faith in Christ and His shed blood is all that is needed. He will do the rest.
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TCGreek said:What then was the purpose of the blood sacrifices? What was the purpose of Yom Kippur?
Galatians 3:18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.
21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
DHK: as he has said many times that one cannot enter the kingdom of God without doing something in order to enter it. He has also said one must do something in order to be born again.
HP: Scripture states there are some things we must do to inherit eternal life.
- Repent
- Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ
- Remain faithful unto the end
Yes, according to God’s Word there are some things we must do to be saved.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Heavenly Pilgrim said:HP: Scripture states there are some things we must do to inherit eternal life.Yes, according to God’s Word there are some things we must do to be saved.
- Repent
- Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ
- Remain faithful unto the end
But, they add works on top of those things the Scriptures require.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
How does one define ‘"Millennial Exclusion"? What does the doctrine advocate that is seen as 'damnable heresy' by the administrators of this board? I am honestly in the dark on this one.
DeafPosttrib
New Member
Millennial Exclusion is a false and heresy doctrine. It teaches, when we all christians face at the judgment seat of Christ. Some Christians shall suffer loss the reward, and cannot enter the kingdom of God, (they teaching it is speak of a thousand years reign on earth). Unfaithful Christian who will suffer loss the reward and shall be cast away in the lake of fire, but they saying it is temporary for Christians in the lake of fire. Because they already accepted Christ. But, afterward, they fall away and not obey Christ, shall be suffer in the lake of fire. They shall not be reign with Christ on earth for 1000 years(millennial kingdom). Then, all unfaithful Christians shall be finally released out of the lake of fire at the end of millennial, they then shall dwell with Christ on new earth for eternality.
This is sound like as purgatory as what Roman Catholic teaching.
This is a false doctrine. I reject it.
There is no purgatory in the Bible!
SFC accuses us(Heavenly Pilgrim, BobRyan, DPT, and others) that we are ME.
But, none of us are ME. I only know ME are James Newman, Lacy Evans, Accountablity, J.J., and others. All are hold unconditiuona security salvation doctrine, even, they are baptists.
SFC have to be careful for being label us as ME. But, I am not ME, and Heavnely PIlgrim is not ME either.
Bible teach us, unfaithful Christian shall be cast away into everlasting fire at the judgment in Matt. 25:30, and many other passages, but not purgatory or temporary punishment. Itmis an everlasting fire punishment for unfaithful Christians.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
This is sound like as purgatory as what Roman Catholic teaching.
This is a false doctrine. I reject it.
There is no purgatory in the Bible!
SFC accuses us(Heavenly Pilgrim, BobRyan, DPT, and others) that we are ME.
But, none of us are ME. I only know ME are James Newman, Lacy Evans, Accountablity, J.J., and others. All are hold unconditiuona security salvation doctrine, even, they are baptists.
SFC have to be careful for being label us as ME. But, I am not ME, and Heavnely PIlgrim is not ME either.
Bible teach us, unfaithful Christian shall be cast away into everlasting fire at the judgment in Matt. 25:30, and many other passages, but not purgatory or temporary punishment. Itmis an everlasting fire punishment for unfaithful Christians.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Hope of Glory
New Member
Heavenly Pilgrim said:How does one define ‘"Millennial Exclusion"? What does the doctrine advocate that is seen as 'damnable heresy' by the administrators of this board? I am honestly in the dark on this one.
Those of us who preach the gospel of the Kingdom that John and Jesus came preaching, teach nothing, but grace to be born from above.
What must I do to be saved?
Believe... aorist. It's punctiliar action. It's an event.
Believe... plus nothing. This verse says nothing about adding any works to get saved, prove you're saved, or to stay saved. (There are great catalogs of sins that state they will exclude you from the kingdom, but "a saved person would never do that", according to those who backload works onto the requirements for being born from above. But, I've never met anyone who hasn't told an ugly girl that she's pretty (lying) or something such as that, but of course, they exclude themselves from those lists.) Ironically, we say no works are required, they backload the works onto it, and we're accused of teaching a spiritual salvation of works.
Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. Not "may be" saved, nor anything else.
If you believe on the Lord Jesus, you are born from above. You're in the family. Your heavenly DNA is set.
But, after you are in the family, you are accountable for your actions. We don't have a license to sin. We ought to behave ourselves. Ephesians 2:10ff tells us that we should walk in the good works. 1 John 2:6 tells us that he that abideth in him ought himself also to walk, even as he walked.
For some reason, they figure that "should" and "ought" are really "will", lest the person to whom it is directed isn't really and truly saved in the first place.
A person who is born from above will see the kingdom. He's in the family. But, ruling and reigning is dependent upon the way we live in this life and is determined at the Judgment Seat of Christ. We may or may not receive a crown.
Ironically, they are the ones who dwell upon the exclusion aspect of it, while we dwell upon the positives, yet we are castigated for it. We concentrate on receiving rewards, but are accused of condemning everyone, and they have a slight problem with being honest in what we say, in that they keep claiming that we say that it's either ruling and reigning or hell, and none of us have said that (although several of them have), and they can't show where we have said it.
I am just thankful to God that there are some who see that we are accountable for our actions and that we don't have a license to live any ol' way we want to.
Hope of Glory
New Member
DeafPosttrib said:Unfaithful Christian who will suffer loss the reward and shall be cast away in the lake of fire, but they saying it is temporary for Christians in the lake of fire. Because they already accepted Christ. But, afterward, they fall away and not obey Christ, shall be suffer in the lake of fire. They shall not be reign with Christ on earth for 1000 years(millennial kingdom). Then, all unfaithful Christians shall be finally released out of the lake of fire at the end of millennial, they then shall dwell with Christ on new earth for eternality.
Actually, only some believe this, and I don't know of any on the BB who do.
DeafPosttrib said:But, none of us are ME. I only know ME are James Newman, Lacy Evans, Accountablity, J.J., and others. All are hold unconditiuona security salvation doctrine, even, they are baptists.
I highlighted the important part. This is a traditional Baptist belief that was once held much more commonly that it is today. Almost every church that preaches and teaches the coming Kingdom, even today, is Baptist.
But, I guess that if they don't teach a license to sin, they aren't elite enough.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Heavenly Pilgrim said:How does one define ‘"Millennial Exclusion"? What does the doctrine advocate that is seen as 'damnable heresy' by the administrators of this board? I am honestly in the dark on this one.
HP, they teach that one who has placed their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His shed blood can spend a thousand years in hell or outer darkness even though they are saved.
That is a damnable heresy.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
DeafPosttrib said:Millennial Exclusion is a false and heresy doctrine. It teaches, when we all christians face at the judgment seat of Christ. Some Christians shall suffer loss the reward, and cannot enter the kingdom of God, (they teaching it is speak of a thousand years reign on earth). Unfaithful Christian who will suffer loss the reward and shall be cast away in the lake of fire, but they saying it is temporary for Christians in the lake of fire. Because they already accepted Christ. But, afterward, they fall away and not obey Christ, shall be suffer in the lake of fire. They shall not be reign with Christ on earth for 1000 years(millennial kingdom). Then, all unfaithful Christians shall be finally released out of the lake of fire at the end of millennial, they then shall dwell with Christ on new earth for eternality.
This is sound like as purgatory as what Roman Catholic teaching.
This is a false doctrine. I reject it.
There is no purgatory in the Bible!
SFC accuses us(Heavenly Pilgrim, BobRyan, DPT, and others) that we are ME.
But, none of us are ME. I only know ME are James Newman, Lacy Evans, Accountablity, J.J., and others. All are hold unconditiuona security salvation doctrine, even, they are baptists.
SFC have to be careful for being label us as ME. But, I am not ME, and Heavnely PIlgrim is not ME either.
Bible teach us, unfaithful Christian shall be cast away into everlasting fire at the judgment in Matt. 25:30, and many other passages, but not purgatory or temporary punishment. Itmis an everlasting fire punishment for unfaithful Christians.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
DPT,
You need to go back and read my posts. I have never accused you of being in the ME crowd. I did tell you Judas was never saved. I have told you one cannot lose one's Salvation. I stand by those truths as the Word of God has shown them to me.
Cutter said:Galatians 3:18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.
21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
You have not answered my question. Those verses do not answer the question.
TCGreek said:You have not answered my question. Those verses do not answer the question.
Were Yom Kipper and the blood sacrifice part of the law?
Was the law our schoolmaster?
Are we still under a schoolmaster?
Were the blood sacrifices a shadow of things to come?
Did the blood sacrifices make a man perfect?
Hopefully when you consider these questions you will come to realize the purposes of the blood sacrifice and Yom Kipper.
Cutter said:Were Yom Kipper and the blood sacrifice part of the law?
Was the law our schoolmaster?
Are we still under a schoolmaster?
Were the blood sacrifices a shadow of things to come?
Did the blood sacrifices make a man perfect?
Hopefully when you consider these questions you will come to realize the purposes of the blood sacrifice and Yom Kipper.
1. Even before the Law was given, Abraham offered animal sacrifices to God, signifying the Lamb of God to come.
2. It is true from Scripture that the blood of animals did not take away sin, but they being the shadow of the body of Christ, accomplished that for which they were designed.
3. They satisfied the wrath of God because they were looking to the perfect atonement of Christ.
4. The soma of Christ cast a shadow back to the animal sacrifices, signifying their dependence on the real deal, but they did were that shadow.
TCGreek said:1. Even before the Law was given, Abraham offered animal sacrifices to God, signifying the Lamb of God to come.
2. It is true from Scripture that the blood of animals did not take away sin, but they being the shadow of the body of Christ, accomplished that for which they were designed.
3. They satisfied the wrath of God because they were looking to the perfect atonement of Christ.
4. The soma of Christ cast a shadow back to the animal sacrifices, signifying their dependence on the real deal, but they did were that shadow.
I agree with this. Have I said otherwise?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
TCGreek: They satisfied the wrath of God because they were looking to the perfect atonement of Christ.
HP: I believe Scripture clearly indicates that they could never satisfy the wrath of God on sin. Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
The whole system was merely a school master for us. God did not desire, nor did the sacrifices please Him. Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
No sacrifice, apart from the shed blood of Christ, in actuality has any effect upon the demands of the law, apart from their intended usage, i.e., to get the one offering the sacrifice to look to the Ultimate Sacrifice then seen as 'yet to come.'
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
HP: I believe Scripture clearly indicates that they could never satisfy the wrath of God on sin. Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
The whole system was merely a school master for us. God did not desire, nor did the sacrifices please Him. Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
No sacrifice, apart from the shed blood of Christ, in actuality has any effect upon the demands of the law, apart from their intended usage, i.e., to get the one offering the sacrifice to look to the Ultimate Sacrifice then seen as 'yet to come.'
While disproving my post, you have turned around and affirmed it:
No sacrifice, apart from the shed blood of Christ, in actuality has any effect upon the demands of the law, apart from their intended usage, i.e., to get the one offering the sacrifice to look to the Ultimate Sacrifice then seen as 'yet to come.
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Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
TCGreek: While disproving my post, you have turned around and affirmed it:
HP: There is nothing like a little agreement to kill good debate.:smilewinkgrin:
DeafPosttrib
New Member
Askjo,
You ask me, do I believe a Christian could lose salvation?
Yes.
Myself was securist for a long time. Because I was learning unconditional security salvation doctrine from baptist church, attended baptist college, and read baptist books. I thought unconditional security salvation is a biblical and sound doctrine with truth.
Early in my Christian life, I only believe two things that a Christian might lose salvation: 1. Receive the mark of the beast or worshipping the beast(Revelation chapter 13); 2. anyone take word away from God's Word, God shall removed person's name out of Book of life(Rev. 22:19), whilst myself was securist.
In year 2000, while, I study in Matthew chapter 24 and 25 about second coming. Matt. 25:30 that disturbed me the mostly, because this verse speak against unconditional security salvation. I can see Matt. 25:14-30 clearly direct toward us, because we are servants of God.
In year 2002, I finally no longer myself as securist. Because I saw so many passages in the Bible mentioned on conditional with warning relates with salvation. I decide follow what the Bible saying.
You ask me of my definitions on scriptures, does these sounds that I am 'Calvinism'.
No, I am strong against Calvinism, it is false doctrine.
Can you care explain to me of Matt. 22:14- "For many are 'called', but few are 'chosen'."; what this verse mean to you?
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
You ask me, do I believe a Christian could lose salvation?
Yes.
Myself was securist for a long time. Because I was learning unconditional security salvation doctrine from baptist church, attended baptist college, and read baptist books. I thought unconditional security salvation is a biblical and sound doctrine with truth.
Early in my Christian life, I only believe two things that a Christian might lose salvation: 1. Receive the mark of the beast or worshipping the beast(Revelation chapter 13); 2. anyone take word away from God's Word, God shall removed person's name out of Book of life(Rev. 22:19), whilst myself was securist.
In year 2000, while, I study in Matthew chapter 24 and 25 about second coming. Matt. 25:30 that disturbed me the mostly, because this verse speak against unconditional security salvation. I can see Matt. 25:14-30 clearly direct toward us, because we are servants of God.
In year 2002, I finally no longer myself as securist. Because I saw so many passages in the Bible mentioned on conditional with warning relates with salvation. I decide follow what the Bible saying.
You ask me of my definitions on scriptures, does these sounds that I am 'Calvinism'.
No, I am strong against Calvinism, it is false doctrine.
Can you care explain to me of Matt. 22:14- "For many are 'called', but few are 'chosen'."; what this verse mean to you?
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
DeafPosttrib said:Can you care explain to me of Matt. 22:14- "For many are 'called', but few are 'chosen'."; what this verse mean to you?
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
"For many are 'called'
Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
but few are 'chosen'
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
An example that many are called and an example of one of the few that have been specifically chosen.