Was there rain before Noah's Flood???

[Helen]

The Bible says the mist watered the ground... not rain. The mist that rose from the earth watered the earth... but there was no rain upon the earth.

Had there been rain before, the people Noah preached to would have understood the severeness of the flood that was coming.

But the Word of God says they 'knew not until the flood came and destroyed them all.'

They did not know what rain was for it had never rained.

It's not that simple. The explosion of the fountains was incredible, shooting material up higher than the volcanoes of today. NNE had seen that before and we have not seen it since. This was not a gentle water rain, but what rained down on earth for forty days was hot slush -- scalding waters mixed with incredible amounts of pulverized debris from under the crust.

Of course they could not have known until this flood came and destroyed them all! We have seen rain often in our lives and still have trouble coming to terms with the violence and horror of what Noah's Flood actually entailed.

 

[Alcott]

Had there been rain before, the people Noah preached to would have understood the severeness of the flood that was coming.

Cite the verse that says Noah preached to anybody about the severeness of the flood.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

It's not that simple. The explosion of the fountains was incredible, shooting material up higher than the volcanoes of today. NNE had seen that before and we have not seen it since. This was not a gentle water rain, but what rained down on earth for forty days was hot slush -- scalding waters mixed with incredible amounts of pulverized debris from under the crust.

Of course they could not have known until this flood came and destroyed them all! We have seen rain often in our lives and still have trouble coming to terms with the violence and horror of what Noah's Flood actually entailed.

What Bible are you getting that information from? The Crackerjacks Explorers Bible? Scripture does not say anything of material shooting up higher than volcanoes during the flood.

Helen, you need to quit reading that junk and read the Word of God for the answers.

 

[Helen]

I'm not reading junk, Standing, and thank you for your lovely Christ-like spirit!

If water was seeping up from the ground by Genesis 2, it was under pressure. Pressure means heat. In Genesis 7:11 we read that ALL the fountains of the deep BURST forth at the same time. The kind of pressure that would have taken is enormous. Our volcanoes today, our geysers today, only pop off occasionally. But a critical point of pressure and heat had been reached and everything blew at once. That's in the Bible.

And that means that an enormous amount of material shot up with it. It means the waters were scalding hot and that when they condensed and rained back down, they brought with them the junk that they had exploded upward with.

There is nothing unbiblical about any of that and, in fact, that is exactly what the Bible narrative indicates when you combine Genesis 2 and 7 and look at what must have happened.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Cite the verse that says Noah preached to anybody about the severeness of the flood.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

This verse here certainly tells us Noah condemned the world through the building the ark.

People saw the message. Noah's building the ark was preaching the message.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I'm not reading junk, Standing, and thank you for your lovely Christ-like spirit!

If water was seeping up from the ground by Genesis 2, it was under pressure. Pressure means heat. In Genesis 7:11 we read that ALL the fountains of the deep BURST forth at the same time. The kind of pressure that would have taken is enormous. Our volcanoes today, our geysers today, only pop off occasionally. But a critical point of pressure and heat had been reached and everything blew at once. That's in the Bible.

And that means that an enormous amount of material shot up with it. It means the waters were scalding hot and that when they condensed and rained back down, they brought with them the junk that they had exploded upward with.

There is nothing unbiblical about any of that and, in fact, that is exactly what the Bible narrative indicates when you combine Genesis 2 and 7 and look at what must have happened.

Scripture does not say that it burst up higher than the volcanoes. It is wrong to say it did. Scripture speaks of God in the still small voice rather than in the thundering in one place.

The fact that they were referred to as 'the fountains of the deep' shows that they were underwater... deep in an abyss. They could have only erupted 20 feet above where thay broke or 200 feet above. Scripture does not say. It is wrong to state that they shot up higher than a volcano.

 

[Helen]

The word for 'deep' is 't'hom' or 'tehom'. It does not mean 'seas.' It means 'surging mass.'

The words used and the indication is something of very great violence. The word used which translates 'burst' is 'baqa,' which is a violent ripping or tearing. So what we have in the Hebrew is that ALL the springs of the surging mass violently ripped up through the earth. The Hebrew is perfectly in line with what I have mentioned must have happened.

 

[atestring]

There had never been a flood and I think thw dew kept the earth moist

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The word for 'deep' is 't'hom' or 'tehom'. It does not mean 'seas.' It means 'surging mass.'

The words used and the indication is something of very great violence. The word used which translates 'burst' is 'baqa,' which is a violent ripping or tearing. So what we have in the Hebrew is that ALL the springs of the surging mass violently ripped up through the earth. The Hebrew is perfectly in line with what I have mentioned must have happened.

The word for deep does not just mean surging mass, it also means abyss and depth.

Again, it would have been it the depths of teh main part of the sea. The Hebrew does not in any way lline up with your description of material being shot up higher than volcanoes.

You are reading into Scripture what is not there.

 

[Helen]

No, Standing, I am putting Scripture together with Scripture. And I am, oh gasp, considering what we know scientifically about radioactive materials, the early earth, and water under pressure, as well as the events at the time of Peleg. It fits into one enormous scenario.

The disasters were not miraculous. The timing was, and salvation through them was. But the catastrophes themselves were all part of the same sequence geologically. And yes, we are definitely young earth creationists!

 

[Alcott]

The moon can be seen in the afternoon sky -- even today.

IF it is at a phase of the moon to be seen then, and IF the sky is clear in which to see it-- which would not have been so if a constant mist, instead of clouds here and there, were ever present.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

There is evidence that the atmosphere enveloping the early earth was very different than it is today. At one time the entire earth enjoyed a warm tropical environment and there was enhanced oxygen in the atmosphere. Organisms grew larger and lived longer as a result.

Many creationists attribute this to a water vapor canopy that was created by God on the second day, the "waters above the firmament" (Genesis 1:7). This theory holds that a "vast blanket of invisible water vapor...productive of a marvelous greenhouse effect which maintained mild temperatures from pole to pole, thus preventing air-mass circulation and the resultant rainfall (Genesis 2:5). It would certainly have had the further effect of efficiently filtering harmful radiation from space, markedly reducing the rate of somatic mutations in living cells, and, as a consequence, drastically decreasing the rate of aging and death." (Morris, Henry, Scientific Creationism, 1984, p. 211) Some have postulated that this vapor layer could have dramatically increased the atmospheric pressure on the surface of the early earth, again contributing to a healthier environment. Later the canopy would have collapsed in the form of rain (the "windows of heaven" in Genesis 7:11), contributing to the Flood water, and resulting in the dramatic drop-off in longevity after the deluge.

Source - http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/flood/flood.htm

 

[Helen]

With all due respect to Dr. Morris, that would not have caused a drop in lifespan by 50% in one generation. That is impossible.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Present day rain condenses around what are called condensation nuclei. "Some atmospheric particles...formed by the evaporation of water from droplets of sea spray, are natural and even beneficial atmospheric constituents. Very small particles called condensation nuclei serve as bodies for atmospheric water vapor to condense upon and are essential for the formation of rain drops." If the earth before the flood had a smaller oceans then the ocean produced particles for the water drops to condense on would be non-existent. Also less atmospheric turbulence would have put less particles into the air.

Considering all of the above since there would have been no condensation nuclei for the water vapor to condense upon and since the earth would have been less turbulent water vapor would not be suspended in the lower atmosphere. Therefore there would have been no rain. On the other hand since the earth would have been warmer and laden with uncondensed moisture there would have been an extremely efficient condensation cycle. Condensed water droplets would have been bigger and more commonplace. The earth's would have cooled very rapidly at night. This drop in temperatures would have caused a very large condensation cycle. The earth would therefore have been watered by a very heavy mist or fog each day possibly at sunset and sunrise.


After the flood came the change in weather patterns, the formation of condensation nuclei from oceans and increased volcanic activity, and the increased wind systems would have produced rain.

Source - http://www.biblestudy.org/question/was-there-rain-on-the-earth-before-the-flood.html

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Helen, I apologize for resorting to impersonal quotes, but my degree is in theology and psychology and not science. I must go to other learned men and women for support of what I believe the Word of God teaches. I respect the fact that you are learned in earth science and wouldn't begin to try to survive in this arena with you. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[Helen]

From my husband, Barry, who is a physicist and geologist and astronomer:

Inevitably there is going to be condesation nuclei as there is dust still drifting down to the sun from the outskirts of the solar system. As it passes the earth, some of it gets swept up by us, thus providing condensation nuclei from the beginning. In the past this flux of dust would be even higher than at the moment.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. The Word of God says before the deluge a mist watered the earth, not rain.

Earth Science takes the science of today and tries to explain that it rained even though God's Word does not state so.

Earth Science fails to take into account that the earth today is not the same as it was 6,000 years ago before the flood; nor is the atmosphere the same.

God said a mist watered the ground, not rain. Why question God's Word?

 

[BobRyan]

With all due respect to Dr. Morris, that would not have caused a drop in lifespan by 50% in one generation. That is impossible.

Actually the life span dropped by 90% going from almost 1000 years to something just under 100 years within about 7 generations. Jacob claimed his 120 years were short -- but Moses' life was considered "long" at 120.

Just guessin' again (since we have no way to reproduce and test all the conditions in the lab of course) - the difference was not "as much" caused by the fall of the Canopy as lack of access to the Tree of life over successive generations and change in diet. I agree with what Morris said about the water Canopy and mutations -- but I don't think that this alone accounts for all that we see.

]Gen 3
22 Then the LORD God said, ""Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever''
23 therefore the LORD God sent him out[/b] from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.
24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the [b]flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

Genesis 6:3
Then the LORD said, " My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Gen 9


8 Then God spoke to Noah and to his sons with him, saying,
9 "Now behold, I Myself do establish My covenant with you, and with your descendants after you;
10 and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you; of all that comes out of the ark, even every beast of the earth.
11 "I establish My covenant with you; and all flesh shall never again be cut off by the water of the flood, neither shall there again be a flood to destroy the earth."
12 God said, "This is the sign of the covenant which I am making between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all successive generations;
13 I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and the earth.
14 "It shall come about, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow will be seen in the cloud,
15 and I will remember My covenant, which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and never again shall the water become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16 "When the bow is in the cloud, then I will look upon it, to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth."
17 And God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant which I have established between Me and all flesh that is on the earth."