'Wash Post' Obtains Shocking Memo from U.S. Embassy in Baghdad

How is this news? Did you seriously not konw this already Poncho? The stuff in the memo is not new, and not contradictory to anything I have heard from the administration, though i admittedly don't listen to it all.

The danger of abductions and violence is well known. No one denies that.

But welcome to the party, Poncho. Glad you are finally catchign up with what many of us already know.

 

:sleeping_2: Shocking memo?

 

Your post poncho on this ...sadly and tragically has been confirmed by the death and torture of two of our soldiers and the salient point of all of that ...people just stood around and watched it happen....I don't think we have ever been wanted there ..perhaps used but never wanted. Some excellent posts concerning this on this thread kinda of relates to the truthful warning coming from the Iraq embassy.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=30735

The uncle of one of the deceased nailed it...we do not have a plan ..and he is right.

The right wing warmongers do not have a plan "stay the course" is a joke and not even a plan.

So your post is nothing to snooze at eventhough right wing koolaid drinkers are lazy after taking the bush morphine they should really listen and glean some information and wisdom and then and only then we can wisely pursue bringing our boys and girls home.

Your are starting to hear the word "lost" more and more and it is coming from the middle and heartland.

Conservatives should have listened to William Buckley and his timely op-ed
a year or so ago and proclaimed victory and start to draw down..and we can take a page from the Japanese today ..they proclaimed success and now are leaving.

Is Iraq worth ...evn one Americans life.....NO! has nothing to do with our security and everything to do with an incompetent President and those who fooled him into war ...the one percenters I call them.

So carpo have a nice sleep ..real patriots will clean up the mess that your precious bush has wrought...I wonder what bush will do once he is gone from the white house...write a book:laugh: ...do great deeds...travel the world....advocate human rights...advocate protecting the environment...cash in from big oil.

Probably the last.

 

Excellent post, APAL.

 

No doubt millions of muslims will be taking to the streets in demonstration of how their "religion of peace" has been hijacked by a few. I expect to see massive demonstrations any day now. [/sarcasm]

 

This is typical whining, and shows the total lack of thinking by those who make it. It is a political argument. There is a plan, there has been all along. The problem is that some don't like the plan, and that is certainly a viable position. However, to say that there is no plan is plainly wrong. It may be a bad plan (and in many regards it was); but it is a plan.

It's a figure of speech. I thought you would have recognized it.

It is pretty common knowledge that you will get by a wide reading and watching of the news.

I am not claiming to be an expert. I rarely post on this topic. What struck me was that you apparently didn't know the information that you posted above, and I was pointing out that it is fairly common knowledge. You pretend to know everything about this, take dogmatic positions on it, including lots of heated rhetoric about the people involved, and then post something like that that calls into question how informed you truly are. It was just kind of funny to me.

Glad to have you with the rest of us who already don't do that.

The Supreme Court didn't install Bush as POTUS. He was elected under the laws of our land and the laws of the state of Florida. He has done a fair to poor job as president, which is likely far above what Gore or Kerry would have done, which is hardly a consolation. But to complain about the election further undermines the already weak point you are commenting from and about.

This conspiracy theory stuff is plainly humorous. And I think Kennedy it is plainly obvious that Kennedy was killed by more than one person, probably as a high level operation. So I am not averse to conspiracies. But we really need to look a little deeper than your surface level complaining about political differences.

 

At least your version of the facts.

Another equally valid version of the facts is that SCOTUS stopped the Florida Supreme Court from "installing" Gore.

Whatever.

Some liberals will never stop whining over that loss.

Truth is the election wasn't decided in Florida. It just ended there. It was decided in Tennessee, Gore's home state. People don't get elected President that can't carry the vote in their home state. If Gore carries Tennessee, he's elected President. Florida wouldn't have mattered.

 

You make it sound like "Regime Change" in Iraq was purely a Republican (or neocon) policy. That's hardly the truth. It was the stated policy of the United States and had been ever since Clinton signed it into law in 1998.

The Iraq Liberation Act​

October 31, 1998
STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
October 31, 1998
STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT ​

Today I am signing into law H.R. 4655, the "Iraq Liberation Act of 1998." This Act makes clear that it is the sense of the Congress that the United States should support those elements of the Iraqi opposition that advocate a very different future for Iraq than the bitter reality of internal repression and external aggression that the current regime in Baghdad now offers.

Let me be clear on what the U.S. objectives are: The United States wants Iraq to rejoin the family of nations as a freedom-loving and law-abiding member. This is in our interest and that of our allies within the region.
The United States favors an Iraq that offers its people freedom at home. I categorically reject arguments that this is unattainable due to Iraq's history or its ethnic or sectarian make-up. Iraqis deserve and desire freedom like everyone else. The United States looks forward to a democratically supported regime that would permit us to enter into a dialogue leading to the reintegration of Iraq into normal international life.
My Administration has pursued, and will continue to pursue, these objectives through active application of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions. The evidence is overwhelming that such changes will not happen under the current Iraq leadership.

In the meantime, while the United States continues to look to the Security Council's efforts to keep the current regime's behavior in check, we look forward to new leadership in Iraq that has the support of the Iraqi people. The United States is providing support to opposition groups from all sectors of the Iraqi community that could lead to a popularly supported government.

On October 21, 1998, I signed into law the Omnibus Consolidated and Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act, 1999, which made $8 million available for assistance to the Iraqi democratic opposition. This assistance is intended to help the democratic opposition unify, work together more effectively, and articulate the aspirations of the Iraqi people for a pluralistic, participa--tory political system that will include all of Iraq's diverse ethnic and religious groups. As required by the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act for FY 1998 (Public Law 105-174), the Department of State submitted a report to the Congress on plans to establish a program to support the democratic opposition. My Administration, as required by that statute, has also begun to implement a program to compile information regarding allegations of genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes by Iraq's current leaders as a step towards bringing to justice those directly responsible for such acts.

The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 provides additional, discretionary authorities under which my Administration can act to further the objectives I outlined above. There are, of course, other important elements of U.S. policy. These include the maintenance of U.N. Security Council support efforts to eliminate Iraq's weapons and missile programs and economic sanctions that continue to deny the regime the means to reconstitute those threats to international peace and security. United States support for the Iraqi opposition will be carried out consistent with those policy objectives as well. Similarly, U.S. support must be attuned to what the opposition can effectively make use of as it develops over time. With those observations, I sign H.R. 4655 into law.
WILLIAM J. CLINTON
THE WHITE HOUSE,
October 31, 1998.

 

What celebratory propoganda? Everyone i heard said that Zarqawi's death would not change things immediately. It didn't. So apparently Bush and company were telling the truth.

No, actually quite sad.

unles you have come up with a new definition of "fact," you didn't state one. SCOTUS ruled that the election results from the state of Florida stood as the State of Florida verified them. The Florida court totally biffed the issue, not even following their own law. And they didn't biff it once, they did it twice, after the SCOTUS had given it back to them with clear instructions about how to make it proper.

Quite simply, you are wrong. The voting procedures of the US and the state of Florida were upheld. We should be thankful for people who would not fall to the political pressure to declare election law invalid simply because it was a close election with a lot of whiners.

Remember, 7 judges said Florida didn't do it right. Seven. That was not some conservative majority. Even the five were not a conservative majority. They were joined by noted middler O Connor.

Well, No, that's not common knowledge.

No, I haven't read them because I really don't care. This country will not live or die based on this issue and I have a life with a higher calling. I have greater interests. I love this country and what it stands for. It is not perfect. It is filled with great problems. But it is better than all the other options.

I regret that six million people died in in the 40s because the world stood by and let a madman commit systematic genocide, and millions more died in the battle to defeat that madman and his compatriots. We stood by in the 90s while another madman started down the same road. And now we had someone who was willing to stand up for life and basic human rights. I believe history will look favorably on Bush in the years to come because Iraq will get things straightened out and we will look back and see a major turning point. And history will reflect poorly on those who were on the wrong side. History would look better on JFK and LBJ had we stayed the course in South Vietnam and won the war. But we didn't. And that albatross hangs around the neck of America today because we let people play politics with the issue. Vietnam today is largely a political failure because of the lack of will. And the deaths of this war are nothing compared to that.

That doesn't excuse Bush's mistakes, or failure to be truthful on some issues. It does excuse the poor intelligence, or Clintons' failures in the 90s. But we need to have a longer term perspective than some of you have. I think we need to value life, and as a Christian, I take that seriously. I don't know if we should have gone in when we did. I think the problems started years ago, and over the 90s, we missed many opportunities for many reasons. But I think it was time to do something. And Yes, I feel that way about other places, where we ought to be using our political strength to call people to account.

 

Who cares?

Regime change was and is the law of the land. It was passed by Congress and signed into law by President Clinton.

At least, I don't believe he exercised his power to veto, but maybe I missed that part.

 

Sure.

I had read them the first time.

Bottom line. It doesn't matter who proposed it, only that it was enacted and signed into law.