Wasn't Christ's Atoning Work Enough?

[Lou Martuneac]

...I re-phrased your question (making it personal to me)...

As a courtesy I told you I will not reply to you. I'll decide whether or not to reply to you on my terms and at my good pleasure.

What you did was REDEFINE my question to answer what you wanted to on your own terms to dodge the crux of the LS doctrinal controversy as I defined it in the line of questioning.

Then you would not accept at face value that I verified my belief that MacArthur is born again.

You need to find another cyber-pen pal.

That's all.


LM

 

[ReformedBaptist]

As a courtesy I told you I will not reply to you. I'll decide whether or not to reply to you on my terms and at my good pleasure.

What you did was REDEFINE my question to answer what you wanted to on your own terms to dodge the crux of the LS doctrinal controversy as I defined it in the line of questioning.

Then you would not accept at face value that I verified my belief that MacArthur is born again.

You need to find another cyber-pen pal.

That's all.


LM

There are a few times when I claim victory in a debate. This is one of them.

 

[Rippon]

Although you finally said that MacArthur is a saved man you raised questions about the honesty of that claim.

Earlier someone in the comment section said that he/she "doubt[ed] his [JM's]salvation". This person then compared MacArthur's latest book to Richard Dawkin's book :"The God Delusion". In response to that post you said "I agree with all you wrote." Which is it Lou? Do you agree with your commentator or not?

Lou,please respond.[/quote]

Again : You endorsed the remarks of a commentator on your blog.This person doubted JM's salvation and compared JM's latest book to Richard Dawkin's book :"The God Delusion"! You replied to his/her post with a hearty : "I agree with all you wrote."

You have not clarified anything. How could you say that you agreed with all of which that individual wrote,if you also claim that John MacArthur is saved?It doesn't make sense. Please respond clearly.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

For the record, here is the question I re-phrased:

"Do I believe salvation is for those who are willing to forsake everything?"

LM was indeed asking me if I believe salvation is for those will to forsake everying. Here was my answer:


Yes. Those who have not forsaken all to follow Jesus are not the ones who possess salvation.

You can find this at "Lordship Salvation: Is it false?" page 6, #52

 

[Rippon]

Are you under the impression that folks who are saved under the ministry of the Gospel by the Lord's servant,John MacArthur,are not really saved after all?The message of JM is false according to you.So people who are saved under its power (God's power is the power of salvation)can not really be regenerate per your view.Is that correct?[/quote]

Again : Since you insist that the Gospel which John MacArthur preaches is so unbiblical -- then do you also think that the thousands who have been saved under his ministry are deceived?You think they are in reality unsaved?Are you saying that his ministry falls under the condemnation of Galatians 1:8,9?! You have a heap of explaining to do Bud.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Are you under the impression that folks who are saved under the ministry of the Gospel by the Lord's servant,John MacArthur,are not really saved after all?The message of JM is false according to you.So people who are saved under its power (God's power is the power of salvation)can not really be regenerate per your view.Is that correct?

Again : Since you insist that the Gospel which John MacArthur preaches is so unbiblical -- then do you also think that the thousands who have been saved under his ministry are deceived?You think they are in reality unsaved?Are you saying that his ministry falls under the condemnation of Galatians 1:8,9?! You have a heap of explaining to do Bud.[/QUOTE]

Rip,

If you have JM's book, TGAJ Anniversery Edition, he answers that same question from his point of view. If you don't have it, I can post his response. How interesting that JM will answer the question from the LS position but it seems LM will not. Now, there is a clarification in this thread to another, that LM has never questioned the salvation of JM, but that is not really answering this question IMO.

 

[Lou Martuneac]

I am not sure some are finished trying to redirect this thread off topic. If they want to debate Dr. MacArthur's salvation they might open a new thread for that discussion.

Let's try to get it restarted. If Jesus paid it all, does LS call on the lost for commitment to the God ordained "good works" (Eph. 2:10) expected of a mature disciple of Christ FOR salvation, to become a Christian?

Why is Lordship’s “salvation (only) for those who are willing to forsake everything?” Why must the lost come to Christ for salvation with a whole-hearted commitment to deny-self, bear the cross and follow Christ to death if necessary?

Is God not satisfied with the finished work of Jesus Christ? Is God not satisfied with His Son’s propitiation for the sins of the whole world? Is God is not satisfied with Christ’s atoning work?

Of course God is satisfied. So, why does LS add what man must bring to God for salvation when Jesus paid it all?

Lordship Salvation is a corruption of “the simplicity that is in Christ.” Lordship Salvation is a man-centered, non-saving message that is antithetical to the biblical plan of salvation. Lordship Salvation frustrates grace (Gal. 2:21).

2 Cor. 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

LM

 

[Rippon]

All Scripture Cited Is From The HCSB

Lordship Salvation is a corruption of “the simplicity that is in Christ.” Lordship Salvation is a man-centered, non-saving message that is antithetical to the biblical plan of salvation. Lordship Salvation frustrates grace (Gal. 2:21).


LM

So you are saying that LS is a false Gospel.No one can be saved under such a message you are saying,right?

Galatians 2:21 : "I do not set aside the grace of God;for if righteousness comes through the law,then Christ died for nothing."

I fail to see where LS sets aside the grace of God. Indeed it magnifies the grace of God.

You're getting a little hung-up on KJV-speak.

2 Corinthians 11:3,4 : "But I fear that,as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning,your minds may be corrupted from a complete and pure devotion to Christ.For if a person comes and preaches another Jesus,whom we did not preach,or you receive a different spirit,which you had not received,or a different gospel,which you had not accepted,you put up with it splendidly!"

I had asked you repeatedly if you think JM's preaching is under the condemnation of Galatians 1:8,9. Well, 2 Cor.11:4 is virtually the same.

I fear that you are guilty of blasphemy Lou M.Not only are you charging JM and other LS advocates with preaching another Gospel,which is serious enough -- but you are also saying that there is a different spirit involved!! So what you are driving at is the message and the messengers of LS are agents of Satan -- another Spirit.WOW! You are grossly wrong. You are in critical error.

So JM is preaching another Jesus,is he?That stupid accusation is beyond the pale.

Perhaps I should spend some time in nastifying you. Yeah, a couple hundred articles should suffice. I'll target your mentor Zeller as well. What do you think?

 

[Jarthur001]

When you or any man dodges the obvious meaning and intent of questions I put to them, they, in this case, you lose the privilege to expect me to interact with you on your terms.


LM

This is a hoot. If you really believe this why twist the words of MacArthur? You post one line over and over and others show you where you are wrong for taking just that one line to say what MacArthur believes, and what do you do? Start a new thread and twist his words some more. Why?

 

[Lou Martuneac]

So you are saying that LS is a false Gospel.No one can be saved under such a message you are saying,right?

Yes, Lordship Salvation is a false, works based message. It is adding to faith a commitment to perform works FOR salvation, i.e. to be born again. False Gospel!

2) Can a man be born again who believes in Jesus, but also offers God a commitment to perform the "good works" expected of a believer/disciple in exchange for salvation? No, (Eph. 2:8-9)!

Dr. Ryrie wrote,

The message of faith only and the message of faith plus commitment of life cannot both be the gospel; therefore, one of them is a false gospel and comes under the curse of perverting the gospel or preaching another gospel (Gal. 1:6-9), and this is a very serious matter.

Lordship Salvation is "another gospel."


LM