WATCH: Survey Reveals a Startling Truth About White Christians

[Zaac]

WATCH: Survey Reveals a Startling Truth About White Christians




Most polls don't matter much. But this one does. A recent Public Religion Research Institute survey has revealed a devastating truth: While about 80 percent of black Christians believe police-involved killings -- like the ones that killed Tamir Rice, Laquan McDonald, and so many more -- are part of a larger pattern of police treatment of African Americans, around 70 percent of white Christians believe the opposite ... that they are simply isolated incidents.

And before many begin disassociating with the term "white Christians," we should look deeper. The numbers include 72 percent of white evangelical Protestants, 71 percent of white Catholics, and 73 percent of white mainline Protestants. This is about all white Christians.

What's worse? Take away the moniker of "Christian" and the numbers drop to around 65 percent. White Christians are as a whole less likely to believe the experiences of black Americans than non-Christian whites. This is a shameful indictment of the church. We need to change this -- and we can.

It's time for white Christians to act more Christian than white.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-w...ians_b_8990914.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

 

[Don]

Why do you hate yourself so much, Zaac?

 

[righteousdude2]

WATCH: Survey Reveals a Startling Truth About White Christians




Most polls don't matter much. But this one does. A recent Public Religion Research Institute survey has revealed a devastating truth: While about 80 percent of black Christians believe police-involved killings -- like the ones that killed Tamir Rice, Laquan McDonald, and so many more -- are part of a larger pattern of police treatment of African Americans, around 70 percent of white Christians believe the opposite ... that they are simply isolated incidents.

And before many begin disassociating with the term "white Christians," we should look deeper. The numbers include 72 percent of white evangelical Protestants, 71 percent of white Catholics, and 73 percent of white mainline Protestants. This is about all white Christians.

What's worse? Take away the moniker of "Christian" and the numbers drop to around 65 percent. White Christians are as a whole less likely to believe the experiences of black Americans than non-Christian whites. This is a shameful indictment of the church. We need to change this -- and we can.

It's time for white Christians to act more Christian than white.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-w...ians_b_8990914.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

REALLY?
It's time for some black believers to act more like Christians than black!
Like blocking the roads with protests and hateful chants about killing cops!!!
​

 

[Alcott]

It's time for white Christians to act more Christian than white.

Is it time for black Christians to act more Christian than black?

 

[Zaac]

Is it time for black Christians to act more Christian than black?

YEP!

But that wasn't addressed in the article.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Nothing like leading off with the sentence "Most polls don't matter, but this one does!" Laugh

I checked the sampling. They only surveyed 292 black people and only 1393 white "christians". They determined the white people to be "christian" by them choosing between a selection of choices. One does not check a box and declare him or herself to be saved.

The number of black christians was not given.

Also, by their own admission, ..... "In addition to sampling error, surveys may also be subject to error or bias due to question wording,context, and order effects."

I think the question wording was poor. "Do you think recent killings of African American men by police are isolated incidents, or are they part of a broader pattern of how police treat African Americans?"

That's a leading question - to both blacks and whites, christian or unbeliever. Most white people do not live in areas where these events occur. Of course they are going to see them as isolated events. Why were they painted as bad for that opinion? The question ends with "how police treat African Americans". That's a hot topic. Many African Americans have experienced injustice on many levels. Of course, the majority of those 292 black people will say it's a broader pattern.

How the article translates that into white people are evil hypocrites and hate black people (that was the thrust of the "findings", even though not stated directly), I'll never know.

The question also gave no room for any other finding.

What about cultural and family and inner city problems that give rise to young black men being prone sometimes to these problems? What does that mean "broader pattern"? What about white flight in some neighborhoods that might leave white people less knowledgeable of any "broader pattern"?

Alas, there was only two choices - one of them vague and undefined.

And white people were made to be haters ...... once again by virtue of these oh-so-scientific findings.

 

[HankD]

"Statistics and propaganda - the most manipulated commodities on earth" - anonymous circa 1968.

How about - "do infidel lives matter - to Muslims"?

Ya, I know its a politically incorrect question.

HankD

 

[Zaac]

Nothing like leading off with the sentence "Most polls don't matter, but this one does!" Laugh

I checked the sampling. They only surveyed 292 black people and only 1393 white "christians". They determined the white people to be "christian" by them choosing between a selection of choices. One does not check a box and declare him or herself to be saved.

Not sure what you were looking at. But the following is listed in the Survey Methodology section:

The number of black christians was not given.

They gave the number of Black Protestants. Those are Christians.

Also, by their own admission, ..... "In addition to sampling error, surveys may also be subject to error or bias due to question wording,context, and order effects."

That's every survey. So unless we aren't looking at every survey with this caveat, it doesn't mean much.

I think the question wording was poor. "Do you think recent killings of African American men by police are isolated incidents, or are they part of a broader pattern of how police treat African Americans?"

They pay professionals to develop the wording. Is quite well worded to me and perfectly captures what they appear to be trying to survey.

That's a leading question - to both blacks and whites, christian or unbeliever. Most white people do not live in areas where these events occur. Of course they are going to see them as isolated events.

That's what questions do. They lead you to answer one way or another. And even folks in denial know a pattern of behavior when they keep seeing it. There is nothing isolated about the police murderings of unarmed black and brown people from one side of this country to the other. The only way to think they are isolated is to be in denial as the survey says.

The same way you can look at the news and say there is a pattern of extreme Muslim aggression across the globe you should be able to see the pattern of how police are obviously policing black people differently. Your proximity to said events is irrelevant.

The pattern for what you're doing now and what white Christians did during slavery and Jim Crow is the same. Ya'll don't see a problem because you don't want to.

But if somebody says there is a pattern of increasing Christian persecution in the United States, I bet that will be easy for some of ya to see even if it's not in your "proximity".

Why were they painted as bad for that opinion? The question ends with "how police treat African Americans". That's a hot topic. Many African Americans have experienced injustice on many levels. Of course, the majority of those 292 black people will say it's a broader pattern.

For the same reason that people who are in agreement with most of the foolishness being spewed by Donald Trump are painted as bad for their opinions.

How the article translates that into white people are evil hypocrites and hate black people (that was the thrust of the "findings", even though not stated directly), I'll never know.

That wasn't the crux of the findings.

The question also gave no room for any other finding.

Why should it?

What about cultural and family and inner city problems that give rise to young black men being prone sometimes to these problems?

What about cultural myths that condition the public and police to police young black men differently from their white counter parts because they've been told that cultural and family and inner city problems give rise to young black men to have these problems?

The same things go on in white communities. When your focus is on the black communities and not the white communities, then of course it's gonna look like they are prone to it. That's why the survey asks what it does.

What does that mean "broader pattern"?

Broader, more widely spread. But you know that.

What about white flight in some neighborhoods that might leave white people less knowledgeable of any "broader pattern"?

Stop looking for excuses. White flight doesn't make people oblivious to the news.

Alas, there was only two choices - one of them vague and undefined.

It wasn't vague except to folks who continue to look for excuses for how the police are differently policing young black men.

And white people were made to be haters ...... once again by virtue of these oh-so-scientific findings.

Some of you seem to be all for statistics and these little studies until they start to shed some light on how the folks in our demographics rally act and think.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Not sure what you were looking at. But the following is listed in the Survey Methodology section:

Ah, I did not see the Black Protestant - 221. But I did count up the White Christians.

That's every survey. So unless we aren't looking at every survey with this caveat, it doesn't mean much. They pay professionals to develop the wording. Is quite well worded to me and perfectly captures what they appear to be trying to survey.

My point exactly. ALL surveys make for very shoddy research or scholarship for the very reason that you can word the questions in prejudicial ways and by turning raw data in percentages, you can get away with very small subject groups and you can leave out a control group. I learned that 30 years ago at Texas A&M when I was working on my doctorate. I don't give very many "studies" much credibility at all. Whether they "prove" my point or counterpoint. But especially not surveys with leading questions and very small pools of subject. If they pay someone to write the question stems, it's to write questions that will give them the answers they want. Most of the educational research, medical research, political research is for someone or some groups to push an agenda by declaring it scientifically correct and most of it is flawed.

You know, for years "studies" proved that eggs and caffiene would kill us all. Now caffiene is supposed to prevent Alheimzer's and eggs should be eaten often.

That's what questions do. They lead you to answer one way or another.

I'm glad you see that. Therein lies the problem.

The pattern for what you're doing now and what white Christians did during slavery and Jim Crow is the same. Ya'll don't see a problem because you don't want to.

You see, I never said that there was not problem. In fact, I specifically said that black people have suffered injustices for a long time.

But if somebody says there is a pattern of increasing Christian persecution in the United States, I bet that will be easy for some of ya to see even if it's not in your "proximity".

Not if that "data" was from a survey.

For the same reason that people who are in agreement with most of the foolishness being spewed by Donald Trump are painted as bad for their opinions.

As you said in another post here that this thread wasn't about black people, this thread isn't about Donald Trump or his lunatic trumpettes. This thread is about a shoddy piece of "research" that finds that white Christians are horrible people and don't act like Christians.


I could go on, but I don't see a point to it.

 

[Zaac]

<SNIP>



My point exactly. ALL surveys make for very shoddy research or scholarship for the very reason that you can word the questions in prejudicial ways and by turning raw data in percentages, you can get away with very small subject groups and you can leave out a control group. I learned that 30 years ago at Texas A&M when I was working on my doctorate. I don't give very many "studies" much credibility at all. Whether they "prove" my point or counterpoint. But especially not surveys with leading questions and very small pools of subject. If they pay someone to write the question stems, it's to write questions that will give them the answers they want. Most of the educational research, medical research, political research is for someone or some groups to push an agenda by declaring it scientifically correct and most of it is flawed.

Yes, Yes!!! Finally somebody who understands. Statistical statements are the same. Yet most everybody says things the same wrong way.

"i.e. Blacks are three times more likely to rob a gas station than are Whites". Such statements are just wrong ALL day.

<SNIP>

I'm glad you see that. Therein lies the problem.

Again, I don't have a problem with that as long as everyone is looking at every survey the same way.

You see, I never said that there was not problem. In fact, I specifically said that black people have suffered injustices for a long time.

And then, as white Christians did during slavery and Jim Crow, you immediately start to rationalize that the problem can't be what is said but that it is something that they, Blacks, have done or are doing.Sneaky

Not if that "data" was from a survey.

It may be rejected by you. But not by most on here or in the mainstream Protestant Church.

Gosh every other day, Fox News gives a poll or a survey result in which they have used the same process to decide who folks in Iowa are more likely to vote for or to tell us why Millennials won't vote for Hillary Clinton. And the folks they present the information to accept it just fine because the folks presenting it present it as an absolute truth.

As you said in another post here that this thread wasn't about black people, this thread isn't about Donald Trump or his lunatic trumpettes. This thread is about a shoddy piece of "research" that finds that white Christians are horrible people and don't act like Christians.

And I say again, when you start to break down EVERY poll and survey as shoddy in an attempt to discredit them in the way that you seem to want to do with this one, then your comments will carry some weight. As it stands, this comes across as "my toes were stepped on so I must discredit what was said".

I could go on, but I don't see a point to it.

Me either.

 

[Zaac]

Why do you hate yourself so much, Zaac?

One could likewise ask you Don, "Why do you love yourself so much more than you seem to love others"?

 

[carpro]

One could likewise ask you Don, "Why do you love yourself so much more than you seem to love others"?

Hmmm....

I find that much more true of you than of Don...or anyone else here for that matter. You spout a lot of disrespectful garbage at your "christian brothers".

 

[Zaac]

Hmmm....

I find that much more true of you than of Don...or anyone else here for that matter. You spout a lot of disrespectful garbage at your "christian brothers".

I didn't ask you what you found. And as you have a penchant for labeling everything I type as dumb, what you say really just doesn't phase me.

I spout the truth to my Christian brothers who like you constantly display a spirit not much at all like Christ with everyone with whom you disagree politically because your positions CERTAINLY have nothing to do with Christ.

And if that rubs you the wrong way,

. I'm not one of those folks who bow at a political trough that poses as a Christian one. I don't have to be buddy buddy with ya and you don't have to accept the truth from me. Just keep dismissing it as disrespectful garbage and I'll just keep on rubbing ya the wrong way.

Now naturally I expect more on here to agree with you than disagree because much like a lot of Baptist churches, this board should be known as a Politically Conservative Board well before it should be called a Baptist anything.

 

[carpro]

I didn't ask you what you found. And as you have a penchant for labeling everything I type as dumb, what you say really just doesn't phase me.

Not really. Just your racial and anti Christian rants. It's well deserved and fazed you enough to respond.

 

[Zaac]

Not really. Just your racial and anti Christian rants. It's well deserved and fazed you enough to respond.

Yes really. Anything that i type that doesn't meet your white, politically conservative POV gets labeled dumb. I don't mind because the truth has that effect on ya. I often respond to the lies of those whose toes I tend to step on with the truth.

 

[carpro]

Told ya. Biggrin

You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the nose, mister "white privilege".

 

[Zaac]

Told ya. Biggrin

You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the nose, mister "white privilege".

No you didn't.Biggrin

You wouldn't know the truth if it stepped on your toes which it often does , mister "white power".

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This kind of back and forth closes this thread.