Featured We don't WANT "Free-Will"

Well, consider yourself outside the norm. When I was a free-willer, it was because I wanted libertarian free will to be true.

My open theist family and friends are so committed to libertarian free will that they get frustrated if I merely try to prove a prophecy of God involving actions of people was guaranteed to happen. In other words, if I simply try to argue for God's integrity with not being wrong, the first thing that comes to their mind is "Are you implying that [insert horrific violent act] was 'determined'"?!

 

Nevertheless, no matter who you are or think you are, you are still responsible for your own sins. You do not get a pass simply because you believe in one theology, doctrine etc. We all must own up to sin nature & sins committed. You sin & you own it!

 

:thumbs::thumbs:

I am 100% responsible for any sin that I commit (whether or not it is "determined" in the eternal grand scheme of things). If I do it willfully and intentionally, I am guilty.

 

If it is determined, you only think you did it willfully and intentionally. You can do neither if you had no alternative. Really try and wrap thoughts around this. It is no paradox. Go to the light....lol.raying::love2:raying::love2:

 

Who says you have no alternative? Are you saying that God is the author of sin & we are merely Puppets?

Your going to have to take this slow with me as I also used to believe in this total Free Will Consept as an ex Catholic. So what exactly is free will? is it that “God does not assert any power or influence over the will of human beings?” In other words, you call all the shots?!?

 

Simply, yes. If all is determined, then you and I have no real alternatives. End of story.:BangHead:
Do you believe all is determined? If so, in what way are you free to choose other than what you do?
Answer that and we should let the thread get back on track, okay?

 

NO, I have moved on from that simplistic view. In my opinion, there no such thing as free will. However, I do believe in a limited will. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Sorry but I edited an addition as you were replying. There is an additional question that I posed to you.

 

This thread got me to thinking. When we pray for the salvation of a sinner, what exactly are we asking God to do?

Aren't we asking God to send the Holy Spirit to open his spiritual eyes? To convict him of his sin?

Are we asking God to save that sinner if the sinner is willing? Or, are we really asking God to make him willing?

Or, are we asking God to save him even if he's not willing? I tell you, that is certainly my prayer for my lost loved ones.

I guess my point is that if you believe in free will, there's no point in praying for God to save sinners.

 

Your on the money.... the Free Will Camp, I think anyway is saying....."God does not assert any power or influence over the will of human beings.” But its the onus of the "Willers" to correct me if I am in error.

 

As I said previous, I believe in Limited Free Will. Therefore we have a will with the capability to make natural decisions both wise and unwise. Likewise, after we are born of the spirit, we have a will with the capability to make spiritual decisions both wise and unwise. Again, this makes sense…it is logical and also very comforting.

 

Then its up to you to explain it correct!

 

Thanks.....

 

Faulty logic. Using this logic calvinists who pray for the same thing are praying for something God may have not decreed since the foundation of the world.

Actually, based on the above scenario I am praying that the person will repent of "exchanging the truth for a lie" and for God to be merciful in not permanently hardening the person.

 

Yes and Yes, but we don't believe this work is irresistibly applied, as Calvinists do.

We are hoping, as Paul did in Romans 11:14, that their wills are provoked and they may turn from their unbelief and be saved.

Even Calvinists don't believe that God is saving people who are not willing. Whether the will is change effectually by God or not, the person must be willing.

As explained, that depends on the perspective. As one already mentioned, it seems much more unnecessary to pray in the Calvinistic worldview than in the non-Calvinstis world view, because at least in our worldview the prayer may have an effect on the outcome.

 

More than that, if a Calvinist, who believes that God hasn't chosen to save some for His own Glory, and he is praying for a non-elect reprobate then ultimately he is praying for something that would lesson God's Glory. Thus, for the Calvinists, a prayer for someone who God hasn't chosen is virtually a prayer to lesson the Glory of God. Cals are praying against God's will if they pray for the wrong lost person.