WE might as well get this out in the open...

...

Is there or isn't there a difference between the soul and spirit?

Calvinists say the terms are used ambiguously in scripture and that any distinction (correct me if I miscite you, Pastor Larry) has no implications for salvation or sotierology.

I maintain that the soul is 1) what makes man separate from the beasts. It gives us awareness of self and, more importantly, awareness of God.

2) Thus, it is our conscience, the place where sin is accountable and where salvation by justification is first recognized (Adam sinned and died immediately in his soul and we who believe live immediately and eternally in our soul because we "enthrone" God there). NOTE: cf: "In the DAY you eat of the fruit, you shall surely die." Gen 2:17. God didn't say Adam would "die progressively" --- or "die eventually" -- die that very DAY! Adam died immediately in his soul, progressively in his spirit, eventually in his body. Likewise today, "The soul that sinneth, it shall surely die" [immediately].

3) The first step in salvation, then, is the JUSTIFICATION of the soul. Throughout the OT, we see God giving man, by faith, "the righteousness of God." Man's spirit (mind, emotions, and will) weren't made righteous/sinless -- his SOUL was. Which is why 1John 3:9 says "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed [and throne] remaineth in him [in his soul]: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." Where else in man, all ye Calvinists, do you find this statement to be a true and unequivocal one?

4) The next step in salvation, then, is the SANCTIFICATION of the spirit (mind, emotions, and will). Thus there are the 3 pieces of furniture in the holy place of the temple, you will recall, which held "illumination"/menorah, "worship"/censor, and "purpose"/shewbread. But notice -- the "Sacrifice" can't get to the soul but what it come through the flesh/outer court (that is, be heard) and the holy place (that is, be understood for what it is). First the Spirit has to light the light, right -- with the "heard word"/"incorruptible seed," 1Pet 1:23 Then one has to consider the purposes of God in light of the Spirit.

But remember -- the regeneration is not outside the temple and it is not in this holy place either. It is farther in (Holy of holies in the ark of the covenant under the mercy seat. It is symbolically the "rod of Arron" that budded though it was cut off from its root. If you take the Sacrifice out from here, you are as one who draws back, Heb 10:39.

Do you see the disnction? Do you see the sotierological significance? Have you been presuming that by sitting in the holy place (church) that you are saved and still have not taken Christ's sacrifice into the Holy of holies of your life by abandoning/repenting self and choosing Him?

In the Baptist church we call it "surrender" when you give up ALL of yourself. In a Methodist church last week, I heard an invitation that made me cringe. The pastor (whom I love dearly) said, "If you have never made your salvation certain, I would invite you to come forward to one of our 'faith partners' and tell them that you want to give God more of your life."

Friend, giving MORE in sanctification is NOT what God is looking for! Sanctification will NOT make your salvation certain. God is looking first for ALL! None of self held back. You "pick and choose" how you will trust Him you lose! There is one very certain way He wants you to come and it is not as "them who draw back, but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. "

skypair

 

Exactly, Hank! And one day our body being GLORIFIED will be "step 3" in salvation -- eventually we are saved in body on account of Christ just like Adam eventually died physically on account of sin.

The body in the "temple" illustration is the "outer court" where our "good works" are seen. And obviously anyone who gives some thought to being saved either here or in eternity will do these even without the scriptures.

skypair

 

I will admit -- there is some ambiguity in science about whether an animal has a soul/conscience or a spirit/intellect. There is also a confusion of the terms even among Christians. Don't let that distract you -- think it through. There is an important difference.

skypair

 

Great! Is it just that you haven't given it any consideration or do you have a reason for your "madness?" :laugh: For instance, how exactly IS our image like that of God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?

skypair

 

Thank you, dw. I would suggest that the distinction MUST be made as it is the BODY, SOUL, AND SPIRIT that must be saved, no?

And it IS a "Cist thing." What they don't know CAN hurt them. They can't regenerate or sanctify anything until they save the SOUL!

skypair

 

Thank you again, dw! You are asking the questions that ought to be asked in this discussion!

1) The objects to be redeemed don't match up otherwise. If the soul is who a person is and God is who the trinity is, then God ought to justify the soul. If the Spirit is the mind, emotions, and will of God (and He is, Prov 8:22-34), then it makes more sense that in order to have the "mind of Christ," we ought to have the Spirit of Christ living in us, 1Cor 2:14-16. And if Christ is the body of God, it makes sense that He would be the One to come and glorify us, right?

2) Mainly in the way that the Spirit communicates to us. First off in salvation. It is the Spirit that convicts our spirit -- our intellect, right -- of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment. It is not a matter of some not being "spiritual men" having no intellect. That is only the case of infants and insane. All can hear the wisdom of God (again, Prov 8:34 -- "...him that sinneth against me wrongeth his own SOUL; all they that hate me love DEATH.") Notice a) man's spirit (intellect) can wrong his own soul and b) if we hate the Holy Spirit in our spirit/emotions, we love death!

If we are "filled" with the Spirit, He TOTALLY fills our thoughts, emotions, and will at the time. If we are indwelt by the Spirit, where does He work? He takes the word and works on our mind, emotions, and wills, right?

3) Like you say, there is some ambiguity. I like the notion, though, that the soul could refer in a larger sense to who we are and also to a particular part of our person as it does with God. In addition, I do believe that the spirit goes where the soul does -- like to heaven when we die. In that way, it is also true that we are "material" and "immarterial" as some have crudely put it.

skypair