Weighing in on the Trayvon Case pt2

[Gershom]

Originally Posted by DiamondLady
George Zimmerman FOLLOWED Trayvon. He was wrong. Even after the 911 operator told him to stop he got OUT of his car and FOLLOWED him. That boy did not go up to his car, open the door, drag him out, and ...what was it...oh yes, "beat his head into the sidewalk." George Zimmerman came after him with a drawn gun. I might have beat his head into the sidewalk also, thinking this guy is going to shoot me.

He did not pursue him as he said in the interview. The gun was not drawn until he was on the ground being beaten.

Originally Posted by DiamondLady
Please...if he didn't pursue him then why was he OUT OF HIS CAR with a DRAWN GUN?????

He said he was watching where he was going in order to inform the police. His gun WAS NOT DRAWN until he was on the ground being beaten.

 

[DiamondLady]

He did not pursue him as he said in the interview. The gun was not drawn until he was on the ground being beaten.

He said he was watching where he was going in order to inform the police. His gun WAS NOT DRAWN until he was on the ground being beaten.

You'll note you said HE SAID. So you're taking the word of a proven liar? So tell me, if he was just "watching" then how'd he get out of his car??? If he was just watching, how'd he end up on the ground??? Since Trayvon is dead we certainly can't get his side of the story, can we? Lastly, he should not have been armed, neighborhood watch are not supposed to be armed. If he'd left his gun in the car....oh wait, he should have never LEFT his car!

Sorry, Gershom. George Zimmerman's protests of innocence just don't jive with the facts and certainly don't mesh with all the times he's already been proved to be a liar.

 

[Zaac]

You'll note you said HE SAID. So you're taking the word of a proven liar?

And this will be highlighted by the D.A.

So tell me, if he was just "watching" then how'd he get out of his car??? If he was just watching, how'd he end up on the ground??? Since Trayvon is dead we certainly can't get his side of the story, can we? Lastly, he should not have been armed, neighborhood watch are not supposed to be armed. If he'd left his gun in the car....oh wait, he should have never LEFT his car!

:thumbsup:

Sorry, Gershom. George Zimmerman's protests of innocence just don't jive with the facts and certainly don't mesh with all the times he's already been proved to be a liar.

Again. :thumbsup:

If someone is so suspicious, the last thing I'm gonna do is get out the safety of my car. But he can't even get his story straight. Was he walking around looking like he was on something or was he walking leisurely?

And if you think he's enough of a threat to call police, why are you getting out of your car and looking for him?

Just entirely too many inconsistencies in his story and again probably why the initial investigator wanted to press charges.

 

[webdog]

You'll note you said HE SAID. So you're taking the word of a proven liar? So tell me, if he was just "watching" then how'd he get out of his car??? If he was just watching, how'd he end up on the ground??? Since Trayvon is dead we certainly can't get his side of the story, can we? Lastly, he should not have been armed, neighborhood watch are not supposed to be armed. If he'd left his gun in the car....oh wait, he should have never LEFT his car!

Sorry, Gershom. George Zimmerman's protests of innocence just don't jive with the facts and certainly don't mesh with all the times he's already been proved to be a liar.

Why would I take your word for it over someone who was involved in it? You said he had his gun drawn. Were you there?

 

[webdog]

And this will be highlighted by the D.A.

I'm sure they will.

If someone is so suspicious, the last thing I'm gonna do is get out the safety of my car.

which is why you wouldn't make a good neighborhood watchman.

But he can't even get his story straight. Was he walking around looking like he was on something or was he walking leisurely?

False dichotomy. Most people who are high as a kite walk quite leisurely. He was also observed walking around in the middle of a downpour, something most people don't normally do.

And if you think he's enough of a threat to call police, why are you getting out of your car and looking for him?

Um...two words: Neighborhood Watch.

Just entirely too many inconsistencies in his story and again probably why the initial investigator wanted to press charges.

Hardly.

 

[Zaac]

I'm sure they will.




which is why you wouldn't make a good neighborhood watchman.

Might be why he didn't make a good watchmen either.

False dichotomy. Most people who are high as a kite walk quite leisurely.

Opinion. I've seen plenty of people high as a kite who were anything but leisurely.

He was also observed walking around in the middle of a downpour, something most people don't normally do.

Observed by whom, Zimmerman? Zimmerman observed his skin color, him staring at him and all this other stuff in the midst of a downpour?

And folks without cars walk in downpours all the time if they don't have a choice.

Um...two words: Neighborhood Watch.

That's right. Neighborhood WATCH-not follow. Not get out of car to find, follow or anything else.

Hardly.

Apparently the initial investigator didn't think so.

 

[webdog]

Might be why he didn't make a good watchmen either.

Actually, he was, hence him keeping an eye out for his community.

Opinion. I've seen plenty of people high as a kite who were anything but leisurely.

So? My point stands...false dichotomy.

Observed by whom, Zimmerman? Zimmerman observed his skin color, him staring at him and all this other stuff in the midst of a downpour?

You can't see from your car in the rain?

That's right. Neighborhood WATCH-not follow. Not get out of car to find, follow or anything else.

You are clueless as to what a neighborhood watch is. I commend Zimmerman for doing what you would not do.

You have bought into the media's distortion of this "white hispanic" (whatever that means)

Apparently the initial investigator didn't think so.

No, he was in a lose / lose situation. He was already tried through the media and the r word was involved.

 

[Zaac]

Actually, he was, hence him keeping an eye out for his community.

Actually he wasn't. He murdered someone because he wasn't a good WATCHMAN and now he has to deal with the consequences of being a bad WATCHMAN.

So? My point stands...false dichotomy.

Your point stands in your false dichotomy version of reality.

You can't see from your car in the rain?

In a downpour, I can barely see in front of the car.

You are clueless as to what a neighborhood watch is.

You apparently are clueless as to what a neighborhood watch is. And the head of the National Sheriff's Association confirms that you don't.

It's ironic because 2012 is the 40th anniversary of the Neighborhood Watch program, which was created at the behest of the National Sheriffs' Association in 1972 in response to rising crime. With the Trayvon Martin case becoming huge news and attraction the attention of no less than the FBI, the Justice Department, civil rights groups, and even the President of the United States, attention has been cast upon the Neighborhood Watch program as well.

Chris Tutko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs' Association, elaborated on the rules that George Zimmerman broke. First, he approached a suspicious stranger. "If you see something suspicious, you report it, you step aside and you let law enforcement do their job," Tutko said. "This guy [Zimmerman] went way beyond the call of duty. At the least, he's overzealous."

Volunteers should resist the urge to intervene, Tutko said, even if they happen to see a crime in progress, because they may become victims themselves. He tells Neighborhood Watch trainees that "you do what you can, when you can, as much as you can, but if you cross the line, everybody loses."

In addition, although Zimmerman broke no laws because he has a concealed weapons permit, it's something that Neighborhood Watch strongly discourages. "There's no reason to carry a gun," Tutko said. "You do not carry a weapon during neighborhood watch. If you carry a weapon, you're going to pull it."

I commend Zimmerman for doing what you would not do.

Yes lets commend folks for murdering other folks.

You have bought into the media's distortion of this "white hispanic" (whatever that means)

Apparently you have bought into the media's he was a Black thug distortion as I didn't say anything to you about White Hispanic anything.

No, he was in a lose / lose situation. He was already tried through the media and the r word was involved.

[/QUOTE]

He was in a lose/lose situation because he's a bad liar and broke basic rules of neighborhood watch. But as the head of the national association has already exampled, you don't know what a neighborhood watchman is SUPPOSED to do.

 

[DiamondLady]

Why would I take your word for it over someone who was involved in it? You said he had his gun drawn. Were you there?

After the shooting, Zimmerman TOLD police he had his gun drawn. He couldn't have shot the boy if his gun had been in his waistband, where he said he kept it.

When you compare what was said then, to what Zimmerman is saying now it doesn't jive.

 

[webdog]

Actually he wasn't. He murdered someone because he wasn't a good WATCHMAN and now he has to deal with the consequences of being a bad WATCHMAN.

Question beg much?

Your point stands in your false dichotomy version of reality.

No, it just stands. Please learn.

In a downpour, I can barely see in front of the car.

You need better glasses.

You apparently are clueless as to what a neighborhood watch is. And the head of the National Sheriff's Association confirms that you don't.

I see, they are the authority

Yes lets commend folks for murdering other folks.

Question beg much?

Apparently you have bought into the media's he was a Black thug distortion as I didn't say anything to you about White Hispanic anything.

What media has reported this? I just see a little smiling boy on ever picture put out by the media.

He was in a lose/lose situation because he's a bad liar and broke basic rules of neighborhood watch. But as the head of the national association has already exampled, you don't know what a neighborhood watchman is SUPPOSED to do.

You pull up one opinion of what it is SUPPOSED to be and now it is the gospel :laugh:

Zimmerman lied trying to cover up the money he had. It was wrong. It doesn't make him a murderer nor does it mean he lied about his account that the medical records, eye witnesses and testimony confirms. The second degree charge is a joke...and if he is found guilty it is due to the "Rodney King affect".

 

[webdog]

After the shooting, Zimmerman TOLD police he had his gun drawn. He couldn't have shot the boy if his gun had been in his waistband, where he said he kept it.

When you compare what was said then, to what Zimmerman is saying now it doesn't jive.

Are you serious? How would one shoot anyone without their gun drawn? Of course he drew his gun when he was attacked.

You stated he got out of his car with the gun drawn. Night and day difference.

 

[DiamondLady]

Webdog said, "He was also observed walking around in the middle of a downpour, something most people don't normally do.

Zaac responded, "And folks without cars walk in downpours all the time if they don't have a choice."

It's obvious, Webdog, you don't live in Florida where we call rain,"liquid sunshine." People here walk in the rain all the time, most people here don't bother to carry an umbrella. It rains every afternoon here during the summer, sometimes sudden downpours. We think nothing of walking in the rain. To see someone walking in the rain is a normal occurance here, not something suspicious.

 

[webdog]

Webdog said, "He was also observed walking around in the middle of a downpour, something most people don't normally do.

Zaac responded, "And folks without cars walk in downpours all the time if they don't have a choice."

It's obvious, Webdog, you don't live in Florida where we call rain,"liquid sunshine." People here walk in the rain all the time, most people here don't bother to carry an umbrella. It rains every afternoon here during the summer, sometimes sudden downpours. We think nothing of walking in the rain. To see someone walking in the rain is a normal occurance here, not something suspicious.

At any rate with the recent break-ins and not being recognized he was viewed as being suspicious. It was also at night, not in the middle of the afternoon.

 

[DiamondLady]

Are you serious? How would one shoot anyone without their gun drawn? Of course he drew his gun when he was attacked.

You stated he got out of his car with the gun drawn. Night and day difference.

No, what I said was, "Please...if he didn't pursue him then why was he OUT OF HIS CAR with a DRAWN GUN????? " That's very different from what you said. He got out of the car, went after the boy and drew his gun. Umm gee, none of which he SHOULD have done to begin with. He was told to stay in his car, didn't. Neighborhood Watch is to OBSERVE and if they see suspicious activity call 911 and do NOTHING. Not get out of the vehicle, they're not supposed to have a weapon, period much less draw or shoot it. The whole point of the facts are, if he'd have obeyed orders, stayed in his car and not had a gun he wouldn't be facing murder charges now, Trayvon Martin wouldn't have died that night and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

When people try to play sheriff and take the law into their own hands, when they don't fully understand what the law is, it causes trouble. It causes situations exactly like this. I believe in self-defense. I believe in stand your ground. I OWN a gun and know how to protect myself and home with it. This case simply doesn't meet the laws of self-defense nor stand your ground.

 

[freeatlast]

This case is the result of a corrupt prosecutor and Judge.

 

[Zaac]

I see, they are the authority

You can roll your eyes all you like. But I would imagine the Director of the organization that started Neighbor Watch is probably a better judge of what a watchmen should be than you are.:laugh:

Question beg much?

Who is this question that keeps begging?

What media has reported this? I just see a little smiling boy on ever picture put out by the media.

Oh you've drawn your conclusion about who Trayvon was from somewhere in the media so there's no need to try and downplay it now.

You pull up one opinion of what it is SUPPOSED to be and now it is the gospel :laugh:

Yep. I would take the word of the organization that started the watch program over yours any day as to what a watchman is supposed to do.

Zimmerman lied trying to cover up the money he had. It was wrong. It doesn't make him a murderer nor does it mean he lied about his account that the medical records, eye witnesses and testimony confirms.

Murdering makes him a murderer. discovering that he was covering up the money just establishes that he is a liar to not be trusted, and is even more reason for the D.A. to proceed with trying him for murder.

The medical records, eye witness accounts and testimony do nothing more than confirm that Trayvon was doing what the "Stand Your Ground Law" allowed him to do.

The second degree charge is a joke...and if he is found guilty it is due to the "Rodney King affect".

If he isn't found guilty, it's just as likely due to the racial prejudices that abound that you've exposed about yourself.

 

[DiamondLady]

At any rate with the recent break-ins and not being recognized he was viewed as being suspicious. It was also at night, not in the middle of the afternoon.

So? It can't rain at night and people walk in it??? Come on. Be resonable. Walking in the rain is not suspicious activity. I don't know that I've EVER seen a teenage boy use an umbrella (and I raised 2 of them...not once have I ever seen my sons use an umbrella in their entire lives!) Walking in the rain is not looking in people's windows to see if someone is home. It's not rattling doorknobs to see if a door is unlocked. It's not breaking windows or anything else suspicious. All Trayvon Martin was guilty of was walking in the rain, at night. When did that become a crime???

 

[freeatlast]

So? It can't rain at night and people walk in it??? Come on. Be resonable. Walking in the rain is not suspicious activity. I don't know that I've EVER seen a teenage boy use an umbrella (and I raised 2 of them...not once have I ever seen my sons use an umbrella in their entire lives!) Walking in the rain is not looking in people's windows to see if someone is home. It's not rattling doorknobs to see if a door is unlocked. It's not breaking windows or anything else suspicious. All Trayvon Martin was guilty of was walking in the rain, at night. When did that become a crime???

His crime was attacking Zimmerman.

 

[Zaac]

At any rate with the recent break-ins and not being recognized he was viewed as being suspicious. It was also at night, not in the middle of the afternoon.

Even more reason for him to not jump out his car and go looking for someone suspicious.

So it's night and there's a downpour and he can make out all this stuff about someone from a distance?

Very little about his story seems to jive.

And to then try to backtrack at the end of his interview. (smh) He needs to be convicted because NONE of this would have taken place had he adhered to what he was told and the operational practices of Neighborhood WATCH.

Let me reiterate: WATCH.

 

[Zaac]

His crime was attacking Zimmerman.

In accordance with the Florida Law, which reads:

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

Trayvon had legal right to use force. The call to 911 confirms the call the girlfriend had with him about being followed by Zimmerman. In her words in testimony to attorneys:

“He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man. I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run.”

Trayvon did eventually decide to run but he was eventually cornered.

“Trayvon said, ‘What, are you following me for,’ and the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’ Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn’t answer the phone.”

She heard everything firsthand on the phone.

So who is more plausible. A young lady who has no reason to lie about this, or a man who has shown himself to be a consistent liar?

Her story COMPLETELY contradicts the version of Trayvon just "popping up next to him" that Zimmerman is telling.